Customer Service: The Key to Business Growth

Leveraging Customer Service calls for business growth

– Sharing experience fixing follow-up problems for businesses

– Success with power follow-ups generating appointments, referrals

Mostafa Hosseini 00:00
Almost on every call, we ask for a referral, even if the person in front of us is not a qualified prospect, because we never know who they know. And then when we ask that 100 times, Steve, we get referrals for our customers.

Steve Gordon 00:17
Hey, friends, Steve, want to know how $5 book lands a $5,000 client, I recorded a 15 minute video showing you our magnetic author method. It’s up now at magnetic author.co/video.

Steve Gordon 00:39
Welcome to the unstoppable CEO podcast. I’m your host, Steve Gordon. And today we got an amazing interview for you. If you’ve ever felt like you’ve been walking around in business with a leaky bucket, today is the day we’re going to fix that for you. I’m talking with Mostafa Hosseini. He’s the founder of pursue, and they are just an amazing company that helps fix follow up for businesses.

He is the creator of the simple retention formula, the simple marketing formula, the simple offer formula, I love that it’s all simple. And for the past 12 years, he’s helped business owners and entrepreneurs build profitable businesses in a whole range of niche markets and industries. And currently, his call center helps established businesses fix their follow up problem so that they can scale through referrals and customer attention without spending money on ads, which I think is super important today. And so stop. I’m excited to have you here. And this is a big important topic. I’ve always said the fortunes in the follow up. So I’m excited to hear your solution.

Mostafa Hosseini 01:47
Well, thanks for the warm welcome. And great to be here. And I look forward to our conversation and you’re right follow up is a big problem. That’s why we got into it. Yeah,

Steve Gordon 01:58
I think that’s the probably the biggest opportunity. Most businesses have to get growth right, right under their nose. So give us a little bit of background on on you. How did you get to this stage of your career where like follow up as the whole thing that you’re focused on?

Mostafa Hosseini 02:13
Absolutely. So I went to school for marketing got a diploma in marketing, then I got my bachelor’s in marketing, and business management, then I started a marketing agency and a ran it from 2010 to 2018, where we did A to Z full service digital marketing, along with coaching and consulting our customers.

And over the years, every time I ran out of cash or customers, or you know, I had a payroll and I had, you know, payments to make and my bank account was empty, I would worry about it for a few days. And then I learned this from Dan Kennedy about power follow ups and retention and harm, nobody does it. So that I would realize that I have a list of prospects and customers and past customers that I could probably call.

So I will pick up the phone and have a very frightening conversation. And um, the day off or shortly after I would get cash appointments, referrals, introductions, and you name it. So we kept doing it. I’m like, This is awesome. So we were doing things like every three or four months, at least every six months. And then 2018, I started teaching simple marketing formula, which was the results and the ad 20 of marketing for what we had experienced with. So I started sharing everything that was working for us and for our customers.

And the last module was always customer retention, that I would like people, this is the most profitable, highest converting marketing activity. And here’s the script that we use to get cash appointments and referrals.

So grab this, take it and call your list today with a very, very friendly and nurturing approach. And you’re going to see cash starting today. And nobody would do it. I don’t like that. I don’t like people. This is the script. These are your people. They’re your customer just pick up the phone and have a very friendly conversation.

They still wouldn’t do it. So later on, I had a guy who was making calls for us. And he was looking for more work. And then during when I when I was running simple marketing formula. I’d be like people I have a guy who’s looking for more work. Here’s what he does. He could call your list. Who wants introduction? Everybody online?

That’s interesting. Then later on, I’m like, what if we do it for you, and we manage this for you? Who wants us wants us to do that? Yeah, brother Sign me up. So long story short, I realized that because it’s natural and easy for me.

I pick up the phone and call people to have a conversation. I just learned that people just hate to pick up the phone. So we started a call center specializing in follow ups and fixing that problem. So that’s the story. Yeah,

Steve Gordon 04:54
well and it’s so true people avoid particularly now which You know, when I started in business, you know, it was the mid 90s. The Internet wasn’t really everywhere. I mean, we didn’t even have email at my first company when it first started.

Took another year, year and a half. And so the phone’s pretty natural as a way to get things done. But now, for a lot of people, it is just like, the worst thing you could ask them to do is pick up the phone. And but it’s also the most effective. Absolutely.

Personalized customer service calls

– Personal connections through phone calls are valued
– Importance of follow-up calls for customer service, satisfaction and conversion

Mostafa Hosseini 05:27
And it’s this in this digital day and age, we’re mostly everything is digital, the human connection, and the personal conversation is missing significantly. And Steve out, I’m sure you you, you know this, because you’ve got the book behind you got unstoppable referrals, you’d be surprised how often how often people thank us, for calling them and thinking of them. What I hear quite often is, oh, my God, thank you for thinking of me. And that personal conversation is missing. So that’s what we focus on. That’s what we specialize in. Yeah,

Steve Gordon 06:06
and I think it’s, it’s an easy way to stand out these days, because most everything is being pushed digital. So when you do show up in person, it really differentiates and, and it can be very valuable. So, you know, you mentioned that you kind of took a poll and asked your your customers if they wanted you to be able to make the calls.

Everybody raised their hand. So I’m curious, like, you started doing that for your customers and what what were some of the things that happened, as you began to reach out and warm up and have that personal contact with their their customer base.

Mostafa Hosseini 06:45
So we do a few different types of campaigns. One is basically we manage the follow up from the time people opt in to download a lead magnet all the way to a webinar and exists an event existing customers and past customers. So from the the opt ins and the webinars and the events, we follow up on that.

So people get really happy with increase the quality of the customer service, book appointments, that and these are things that were not happening before. Before. And after webinars and events, we do a follow up calls, confirmation calls. And so that increases the show up rates. And on the back end of the webinars and events. It increases the conversion rates, with answering questions again, look in appointments, and a big piece that we work on. And we have it scripted, and it’s a checklist item. And that is asking for referrals.

So almost on every call, we ask for a referral, even if the person in front of us is not a qualified prospect, because we never know who they know. And even if they say, You know what, Mostafa, it’s not a good time right now I’m I don’t have the money or whatever the reason, or the excuse this, we always ask well, thank you for letting us know, just curious, who do you know that is having a problem with x?

And then when we ask that 100 times, Steve, we get referrals for our customers? Yeah, you can’t help but get them. Yeah, I can guarantee you referrals if you ask that question 100 times, at least? Well,

Steve Gordon 08:19
I’m not I think that’s maybe that’s what holds people back from this is that, you know, making 100 calls can take time. And a lot of businesses don’t have someone dedicated, you know, to make those sorts of calls. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, is that do you see that as kind of the big barrier, what what holds people back other than they just don’t want to get on the phone.

Mostafa Hosseini 08:41
So there’s some myths and thought patterns that stops people from following up and picking up the phone. First one I hear all the time is I don’t want to bother them. And so the fact of the matter as these people raise their hand, they became vulnerable. And they maybe went through Google searched around, looked on your website, and they decided to reach out, raise their hand and say, Steve, I have a problem with my business, please help me.

And here are a lot of business owners that are like, I don’t want to bother them. It’s like, bro, this guy raised their hand and said, I need help.

Right? It’s like, it’s like, when you go to a doctor or you go to a hospital and say I have a broken shoulder. The doctors rarely sit back and say, I don’t want to bother them. They show up and they help you fix your problem. But we see a lot of business owners that they just sit back and let people experience the pain and carry on with their challenge.

So the fact of the matter is that you’re bothering them by not following up because they still have that problem. Right. You

Steve Gordon 09:50
know, I think a lot of that comes from maybe I don’t think any business owner would ever express it this way. But I think it comes from a lack of belief or conviction and what you’re offering, you know, because if you truly believed that what you’re doing will transform the person that is on the other end of that, that phone, you would pick up the phone in a heartbeat and do it

Follow-up strategies for business owners

– Belief in product leads to follow up even when unwanted
– Friendly, nurturing approach when qualifying leads

Mostafa Hosseini 10:14
100% 100%. Steve, my sales philosophy is that I believe in my product and what I do so much so that I would pick up the phone and follow up with people. Even if they say Mustapha, don’t call me anymore, even if they call me a pest, even if they call me anything, because I know I have a product and a solution that can help them fix their problem, right.

And that kind of the next step is follow up on that with my follow up philosophy, to the point that would allow me to help them fix their problems, even if I have to be persistent and consistent to help them get get themselves out of their own way. Because people will come up with many excuses, or I don’t know if it’s a good time, bla bla bla bla bla. And so, to your point, if you believe in what you’re doing, and you have the right philosophy in the right thought pattern, it will help you help yourself and help them quite a bit.

Steve Gordon 11:19
You know, you mentioned Dan Kennedy before and you know, Dan, has this phrase, you know, you want you want your follow up to be a welcome guests, not an unwelcome pest. And how do you craft the follow up so that you’re not just pestering the people you’re following up with? Where it really is something that they’re like, Oh, well, I’m so glad you called. So

Mostafa Hosseini 11:42
what we do is we in a very friendly and nurturing approach, and that is we just call up and say, hey, you know, it’s me, I’m calling from XYZ company, they catch you at a bad time. And they’re like, No, what’s going on? Usually? They say no, what’s going on? We’re like, hey, the reason I’m calling is the fact that you have downloaded a, you know, a lead magnet or attended a webinar, or you better customer before, you know, right now, I’m just calling check in what’s going on what’s happening here in your life.

And then, depending on the type of campaign that we’re doing, we would say something like, I’m sure you, you didn’t want to waste your time by downloading this checklist or a book or whatnot. Do you mind if we talk about that? And then we dig into? What’s the biggest challenge? What’s going on? Is this a pressing issue?

So work on qualifying them? Is it something to deal with? If they say yes, great, we work on booking an appointment, if they say, No, it’s not there. We’re like, no problem. Can I call you back later? Right? Do you want me to call you back later? If they say no, okay, no problem. Sometimes they say, you know, take me off your list, no problem, we’ll take you off. We want to focus and keep going until they’re ready. And at a point where they want to deal with that problem.

And then we always ask for a referral. If they’re ready to go, if they’re not ready to go, we just say, Hey, who do you know, that is maybe having a problem, their follow up? And then sometimes we get referrals out of that. So we just to your question, we do it in a very friendly, nurturing approach. Sometimes people say I don’t want to be salesy. And I’m like, below me. Scelzi. Just be nice about it.

Steve Gordon 13:17
It’s so simple. It’s so much of this. Like, we want to overcomplicate it, we want to think that there’s all sorts of magic to it. But so much of it is just being a regular human being, isn’t it? Absolutely.

Mostafa Hosseini 13:29
Absolutely. And you’d be surprised how often like, people carry a problem forward for years and years, they have the capacity to do that. And I’ve had deals in my agency days where I followed up with a customer about five years until we redid and redesigned the website. And all it took me was a simple two minute phone call every six month or every four months for five years to secure that deal. And it was a big deal. Right?

And so the problem is that people go out there spend a lot of time and money to find these leads, but then they don’t follow up with

Steve Gordon 14:10
them. Well, and I think what you’re talking about is not just not just throwing them into an autoresponder sequence and trusting that somehow they’re the emails will do their work. I mean, there’s a place for that for sure. We thought of that, but, but really, you’re taking it kind of a step further. And so, I would imagine that for a lot of the companies you work with, do you have to have them kind of start asking for a little more information when people opt into things and they get new leads?

Mostafa Hosseini 14:40
For sure. So some of them don’t, don’t ask for phone numbers. That’s why we get them to change on the forum. So either mandatory or optional, and then we start doing campaigns to the existing list to start collecting phone numbers, so we can follow up with them.

Steve Gordon 15:00
And you know, as you’re working with somebody new and you got a new business coming in, are there places where, like you’re looking at? And you go, wow, you’re leaving money on the table all over the place? I mean, do you find more than just the follow up? Yeah, what are some of the places where people are kind of letting money leak out of the bucket. So

Effective lead generation and customer engagement

– Importance of customer engagement and collecting phone numbers
– Areas where businesses leave money on table: new leads, existing customers, past customers

Mostafa Hosseini 15:19
first place is when they do new lead gen, they bring all these leads in spend a lot of time, money and effort, these people come in, and the stats are about 48% of sales, people never follow up, not even once, right. And so that’s the first place they leave a lot of money on the table, somebody raised their hand, they showed interest they came in, but either didn’t have the time, the manpower and the resources to follow up with them.

Second, big places they have people, once they secure a customer, they don’t properly follow up with an existing customer. As long as their pain were good, we, that’s where that comes in handy. For a lot of people, they say I don’t want to bother them, right, as long as our pain, I don’t want to bother them. So that’s the second place. And a third place people leave money on the table is past customers, someone came through, they bought my stuff, we serve them and they’re gone now. And we have the capacity to get two things from them.

One is reactivate them, bring them back as a customer, maybe go through a course again, maybe there’s other products and services we could deliver and do for them. And then the other piece is getting referrals from those guys, because they came through they had an experience with what we did. So they trust, credibility and expertise are established.

And it’s a lot easier to get referrals from past customers and existing customers than anyone else. So those are three places.

Steve Gordon 16:49
Yeah, and those are, those are all big buckets for people. I mean, there. Yeah, tremendous opportunity. It still floors me that, that people tell you Well, I don’t I don’t want to bug them. Because, you know, they’re paying, you know, like, there’s more opportunity there. In fact, that was our entire my first business that was our entire strategy.

You know, we called it kind of getting our hooks. And once we got once we got a client, we were just like, you know, digging and digging and digging, looking for all the different ways we could help. Like, where are all the problems here? You know, because they’ve all they’ve obviously got more than one problem that they’re dealing with.

And I always wanted to know what all of them were because we could then figure out ways to serve them better, help them better pursue. And we built a multi seven figure business just doing that.

Mostafa Hosseini 17:41
100% I think it could be wrong. But I remember Kennedy’s talking about becoming their trusted advisor. Did you hear that from him as well?

Steve Gordon 17:52
I’ve heard a number of people talking about that. But he I think he’s one of them. So

Mostafa Hosseini 17:57
he’s one of them. And so you wouldn’t just automatically become their trusted advisor, you have to be in touch and stay in touch and have conversations with them. There has to be a relationship where you would call up and say if and if you so, you know, totally talk about calling them with a friendly, nurturing approach.

Like sometimes I call my customers not to sell, I just call to say hi, let’s go grab coffee. And then so sometimes I say, what are your biggest challenges right now and they’re like, You know what I’m working on hiring, then I’d be like you I’m introduce you to a recruiter or someone who can help you with that.

And help them fix that problem, or whatever they’re dealing with, to be the go to person and to be the trusted adviser so that we could do more with them.

Steve Gordon 18:39
And none of these strategies are hard or they know,

Mostafa Hosseini 18:44
it’s like super easy. And people think like you said they try to complicate things, right? And then when you when you give them like, Look, dude, it’s so simple. Just pick up the phone and have a frightening conversation. They’re like, No, no, no, no, no. so and so said, there’s 370 Steps doing this, I don’t think it’s gonna get done that easy. So

Steve Gordon 19:03
people think that they’re all these steps that they’ve got to have the magic words that you know that it’s more complicated than it is. And it really doesn’t need to be. And, you know, and so, it sounds to me, like what you’re advocating is just kind of being on a systematic, you know, schedule where you’re talking to everybody. Not always showing up to sell, because if you show up to sell all the time, they’ll sort of now understand why you’re there. I would imagine, right?

Mostafa Hosseini 19:33
Absolutely.

Steve Gordon 19:34
So talk a little bit about, you know, the outsourcing of this, because I think for a lot of people who are listening, they might be going oh, yeah, I know we need to do that. But wouldn’t it be weird if I didn’t have somebody that was on my team calling? You know, and how would they, how would they be able to kind of build that relationship?

Mostafa Hosseini 19:53
So what we do is we actually very first thing that we do is we go through their funnel and through their offer so we understand our funnel under tend to offer come up with questions that we have come up with a list of FAQs.

For all the questions that we’re going to have to answer on the phone, things that we didn’t anticipate would be happening questions that we’re going to have to answer about the details of their offer, what’s included, what’s not included the pricing, going over and, and understanding their values, the history of the company and whatnot, then the next step that we do is we create the scripts for, for our agents so that that’s the script that they’re going to be using.

And then we send the scripts back to our customers, once they approve it, then we start dialing, so and then so we would call on our customers behalf. Say, Hey, Mostafa, here I work with Steve Gordon, just calling to say hi, and you’re gonna follow the script. And it wouldn’t be any different than having a team member on your own team, except the thing that we do, the advantage is, we will take care of finding them training them, improving their performance.

And if we lose them, we again work on replacing them. And so it’s the same process except that we will deal with all the training and finding them and the rest of it. So and then as time goes by, you know, in the beginning, there’s always obviously it won’t be it’s not as smooth in the beginning, I’ll be honest and upfront. But as our agents work on an account and work on the script, it just gets better and better and optimized on an ongoing basis. Well,

Building relationships, customer service, and referrals in business

– Regular check-ins and value beyond sale build relationships
– Simplicity of customer service approach over complicating things
– Calls on behalf of clients to build relationships

Steve Gordon 21:31
and I would imagine they get more and more familiar with the business that they’re representing. Certainly get, I would imagine would get easier from that perspective. Yeah, so So we’ve talked about the importance of follow up, we’ve talked about kind of how to go about it, and this sort of human way. And you’ve touched on referrals.

And, you know, obviously, I’ve got a pretty good background in referrals. I’m curious, when you’re, you’re making these calls, and you’re having these conversations, how do you position the referral asked is just a direct ask or is it? You know, what’s the what’s the approach there? And what’s the sort of response rate that you get from people?

Mostafa Hosseini 22:12
So the response rate is anywhere from one to 10%, depending on what portion of the list that we’re calling existing customers and past customers definitely have a higher response rate in terms of getting referrals. And we just simply ask, and can I share a tip about times to ask for a referral? Yeah, please, the best time is right, first time as when they sign up for your service or product when they make a purchase.

Not a day after not seven days or a month after, when they make a decision. We asked them Well, who else do you know, that might be interested in this, so that’s the first best time. Second best times with an asset the end are times where you deliver a result, when they experience the results. When they experience their emotions.

And they are high on the emotions, they know what’s happening. That’s the best second best time to ask for a referral. And a mistake that I see a lot of people and I’m guilty of this as well, is, let’s say I sign up a customer. And we’re like, let’s just make sure that we turn this guy’s business into a seven figure business. And then I’m going to ask for a referral. And sometimes it takes six months or a year or two, four years, and I just held back from asking for a referral. Right?

There’s not like, you would be hurting yourself. Let’s say that, that. So those are the two good places to ask for referrals. And so we would just at the end of our conversations, again, depending on how it goes, we ask for referral, in a nice way. Just curious. Who else do you know, that might need help with x? Or he’s having these challenges?

Customer service and customer retention strategies

– Introduction template streamlines referral requests
– Customer support ensures connections and potential sales
– Simple retention formula improves customer service and increases retention and 

Steve Gordon 23:52
Yeah. And so you’re just building that into all the interactions. And now the business does get this automatic boost? Because, you know, you talk to enough people, you ask that question enough times, people are going to have, you know, a thought come to their mind. Oh, so and so it would be great. And now you’ve got a new lead referred in. So and I think that’s a great approach.

And it’s complimentary to a lot of what we do as well. So, you know, I think the key is being systematic about it. I mean, that’s what I see you helping your clients do is that you’re, you’re kind of taking it out of the wishing and hoping method and you’re giving them you know, a real predictable way to make sure that you know, you’re asking that question as often as, you know, as you can, that you know, the really interesting thing that we’ve seen the same thing with referrals that, you know, in our methodology that you can get those referrals are right immediately when they buy but most people think oh, I need to go prove myself. Right. Like they wouldn’t be willing yet.

And I always believe that it’s not because You know, people don’t refer because that you’ve proven yourself. I mean, yes, that does happen. But they mostly refer people that they like. Yeah. And they probably liked you better in that moment that they purchased than at any other moment in the relationship, for sure.

Mostafa Hosseini 25:14
Because they just, they just paid you, they just prove that they like and trust you with their funds. And I’ve seen people what they say, they like me, but they don’t refer as much. Right? Because there’s the financial commitment is not there. So you’re absolutely right. Can I have one more tip about getting referrals?

So if someone says, yes, my staff, I know someone that has a referral problem, or a follow up problem, or whatever your problem is, then we say Would it be alright, if I give you and send you an introduction template, so you can use it, to introduce us to your, to your buddy, just to make your life easier, and feel free to edit and modify? Right? That way you’re giving cuz coming up with that email, and crafting that message is tough.

And it takes time, by giving them the introduction template, you just make their life a lot easier. Right? And you’re like, look, I didn’t modify to your liking? Would it be alright, if I email it to you or texted to you? And I’ve never said, I’ve never heard anybody say, No, I don’t want that. And that just makes your make their life easier, and giving them the tools that they need to introduce you to their network.

Steve Gordon 26:27
You know, when they make the referral? Do you then handle the follow up for the company? To get that person sort of into the sales process?

Mostafa Hosseini 26:36
Yet? Yes. And so depending on depending on the customer, so we could follow up and say, hey, you know, so and so referred Drew, would it be alright, if we book a time to chat? And then, and then we would get on a call to book an appointment for our customer?

And or if the customer wants to follow up on the referrals themselves, then we would just send them the referral referees information, and they would follow up on that. Yeah, and but chances are, if we do it, it will be more effective. Well,

Steve Gordon 27:05
because it’s gonna happen. Yes,

Mostafa Hosseini 27:07
right. Right,

Steve Gordon 27:09
if you cannot rely on I know, that’s, that’s always the way. And it’s unfortunate, but I mean, it, I also understand, you know, most people are so overwhelmed running their business, that they lose sight of some of these things. And if they’re not naturally inclined to do it anyway, then it’s sort of even more difficult to get them to do it.

So you know, I, I understand it. But I also know they’re leaving a lot of money on the table. So I know you’ve got a resource that you wanted to share with folks, tell us a little bit about that, and, and where people can get it.

Mostafa Hosseini 27:42
So I’m sharing the blueprint two, simple retention formula, this is a step by step process to implementing proven increase your customer retention rate and improve your follow up process. It’s a blueprint, that PDF, you could download it at www.persyo.com/vq, that’s persyo.com. Forward slash V, as in vector q is in Cora.
And then you can download the blueprint there. And we’re just putting the finishing touches to our, to my book, simple retention formula. And once you get the blueprint, you’re gonna get a free copy of my book as well. That’s

Steve Gordon 28:22
awesome. And very generous. Thank you for sharing that. So I’d love to kind of dig in a little bit to this idea of retention. You know, we’ve talked about referrals. And we’ve talked about follow up and all of that. But how does retention, play into the follow up process? Talk a little bit about your strategy there,

Mostafa Hosseini 28:42
for sure. So a lack of retention comes from a lack of one of the reasons is lack of follow up, right? So one, and that’s when people don’t stay in touch with their customers. And that’s where customer service maybe is lacking, and problems that is happening, maybe in delivery of the product and the service. So but if we stay in touch properly, we would know of the problems. And that way we could fix them and address them.

And we get to keep our customers happy. Am I making sense? Completely? Yeah. And so the problem with customer retention, and some so many customers, companies don’t do well with it is because they don’t follow up. And once they stay in touch, maybe pick up the phone, maybe through simple emails or text messages and whatnot. Once you stay in touch with your customers, you can address the issues, you get to keep them and then the lifetime value of your customers go up. And you get to get referrals and they’re happier.

Once they’re happy, you’re happy and a lot of good things happen. So that’s how they tie in to each other. Yeah,

Steve Gordon 29:46
and I that makes perfect sense. And the fact that you’re now got your solution for people, you’re you’re giving them a way to sort of offload this so that it’s just gonna get done. To me is so smart. So we’ll link that up in the show notes.

So folks, if you’re driving, you don’t have to worry about trying to copy it down or remember it will link it in the show notes. And it’ll be on your podcast player, where you can find it on our website under this episode. And I’m just excited to talk to somebody else who believes in follow up as much as I do. And I’m thankful that you came and share some of your wisdom with us today. So, Mr. Allen, thank you so much.

Mostafa Hosseini 30:29
Appreciate you. Thanks for having me. And I really enjoyed our conversation and I look forward to working together