Welcome to Daily Confidence for Entrepreneurs Show Episode 17.
Join my friend Heather Pearce Campbell and me for a conversation and discover “How To Confidently Protect Your Business Online.”
Listen to the podcast here:
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KEY POINTS:
How to protect your business online?
What are some of the top legal mistakes online business owners make?
Can protecting your business boost your confidence?
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
13:58 – People with more support would generally be more confident.
35:59 – The Five-Bucket System helps people analyze how to legally protect their business online.
37:20 – Always create a consistent client experience.
49:55 – People just never know where the risk is going to come from and that is the reality of business.
TRANSCRIPTS:
Mostafa Hosseini 0:01
Welcome to Daily Confidence for Entrepreneurs. My name is Mostafa Hosseini. I’m your host for this show. At Daily Confidence, our purpose and our goal are to share tips and actionable advice that you can use on a daily basis when it comes to running your business. I have an amazing guest and an amazing friend here today. Welcome, Heather.
Heather Pearce Campbell 0:24
Thank you, Mostafa. So great to see you.
Mostafa Hosseini 0:27
I will tell you guys all about Heather in a second. We are going to talk about how to confidently protect your business online. While we’re doing this conversation we do a draw with the show and Heather is going to be giving away her gift later. We have a giveaway every week. For you to enter the draw, you like, subscribe, and comment on the show while we’re live or after. Then you tag a friend who could benefit from the show. If you rate our podcast on Apple or Spotify, your name will be included in the draw for the game that we’re going to be giving away.
We have an amazing guest and an amazing topic to talk about. My friend Heather Pearce Campbell. I’ve known her for three or four years now. She is amazing and really good at what she does. Let me do the proper intro of Heather. Then we’re going to dive deep into how you can protect yourself online.
Heather Pearce Campbell is a warrior mama, nature lover, dedicated attorney, and legal coach for world-changing entrepreneurs, based in Seattle. She is a mom to two little wild munchkins. Founder of Pierce law PLLC, home to legal practice, the legal website warrior, and an online business that provides legal education and support to information entrepreneurs such as coaches, consultants, online educators, speakers, and authors around the US and the world.
She hoards information, paper, and books while secretly dreaming of becoming a minimalist. Relishes an occasional rare night with her hobby. When the kiddos are miraculously sleeping, she can soak up HGTV without guilt. Welcome, Heather.
Heather Pearce Campbell 2:27
Thank you. You’re making me want to go jump on the couch and watch HGTV. Just happens.
Mostafa Hosseini 2:36
How do you watch it without guilt though?
Heather Pearce Campbell 2:39
Not very well. Like maybe once a year. Seriously, it’s really my guilty pleasure. But the funny thing is when we travel, not that we’ve done that in a while. If we can ever get the kids to actually fall asleep in bed before us, which is also very rare, we seriously will be scrolling to find HGTV.
It’s really funny. For whatever reason, I think we’re both project people and once you have kids, I don’t know about for other people but for us, projects go out the window. They’re not quite as doable once you’ve got littles in the house running around.
Mostafa Hosseini 3:12
Absolutely. Pretty hard to watch TV or do anything. I’m working here and my son shows up here while I’m in the middle of an interview or I’m doing something very important. He shows up. He’s like, Dad, I want to scooter. Then I put a lock on the door, but somehow he had figured out how to unlock the door and just walked in on me. He gets smarter every day.
Heather Pearce Campbell 3:40
This is right. There is no keeping kids out when they know what mommy and daddy are up to. They want in. It’s terrible. My office is the same way. My daughter at this point figured out how to get silverware like a knife and just twist the door. Put it in and unlock it. Oh, the time of working during COVID!
Mostafa Hosseini 4:00
Absolutely. Let’s get started. Heather, what is your story?
Heather Pearce Campbell 4:05
What is my story? Well, how far back do we want to go?
Mostafa Hosseini 4:10
We got some time. I’ll tell you what you think would be relevant?
Heather Pearce Campbell 4:12
No worries, I’ll tell you the quick version. The quick version is that I was one of six kids and came from a family with a dad as an entrepreneur. Got the lecture when I was five about needing to get good grades, saving your money, and putting yourself through college.
I was a pretty serious kid. Took that lecture to heart and was figuring out at a pretty young age how to save money and how to get odds and ends, little jobs and projects.
By the time I was like seven or eight, I was literally walking the neighborhood knocking on doors. Asking people could I rake their lawns, could I do odd projects and jobs to earn some money.
When I was maybe nine or 10, I had a paper route. I was doing a lot of additional projects for money-making. Shortly after that, I think maybe I was even nine, I was buying and selling cars by around the same age, shortly after getting the paper out.
What I meant is that, by the time I went off to school, I had a bunch of money in savings. I was on scholarship for my undergrad and ended up going to law school. My mom passed away during my first year of law school. I was still pretty young at the time 22-23. That really changed my trajectory as far as thinking about what I would do after school. Just meaning that you get on this path.
A lot of people think I should take work, just to get the experience. I should do something because this is what people do to get the experience. But what I realized through that experience of losing my mom young was that we really have no guarantees. The work that we’re here to do, we need to do right now. We shouldn’t put it off and tell ourselves stories about what we should do, or what we need to do to gain experience.
For me, I became unwilling to do anything work-related that I couldn’t put my heart into. What that meant is that I graduated from law school and I hung out a shingle. I wanted to be in charge of working on projects that I cared about and clients that I took on and not be told what to do, from some small cubicle and a law firm. So, that set me on a path.
The other part of it is, I have a big heart for entrepreneurs. When I look back at where I am now, serving entrepreneurs, serving people at the intersection of law and business, when I look back, it totally makes sense. I have a huge heart for people that are creating their own path doing what they’re here to do. I’ve got some tools that can help them do that easier, to take care of their business, and create more successful businesses. That’s a bit about where I’ve been and why I’m doing what I do.
I have a big heart for entrepreneurs. I've got some tools that can help them take care of their business easier, and create more successful businesses.
Mostafa Hosseini 7:11
Okay, so being on the topic of confidence, tell us about how your mom affected your confidence while you’re in the first year of school. Law School is not easy. If you’re open to that, how did you manage that?
Heather Pearce Campbell 7:34
As anybody who goes through something that is life-changing, literally changes his perspective. Especially we grew up in a family that was all pretty close-knit, six kids all within a 10 year period. I was close to my siblings. We’re very close to my mom. She was the glue of our family. It was devastating.
It drastically changed my perspective on what’s important. That law school period became a time where life took front and center stage and law school was this thing I did on the side. When it came to priorities, law school didn’t stress me out. Life was stressing me out. I literally remember thinking, I have no more capacity for things that people might ordinarily think is stressful because losing your mom and something as heavy as death is stressful.
That’s okay that I’m allowed to feel stressed over that. But law school exams, other things like they came and went. I showed up for them, did my best and did well during law school. But I literally did my whole first year of law school in half the time that other people did.
I studied and did all my classwork between Monday and Wednesday. Drove home every Wednesday to Eastern Washington, and spent Thursday, Friday, Saturday at home. In Walla Walla, part of Sunday. Then I would drive back to Seattle, every week. The entire year I did not miss a weekend because my parents wouldn’t let me change my life around to spend that last 10 months with mom. I was like, Okay, I’ll do school and spend time with my family every week.
I’ll just make it work and I did. It really changed my appreciation for this concept that we’ve got time. If I don’t do it now then I’ll do it later. I really want to be doing a certain career or body of work, I’ve got time to grow into that.
My challenge to people listening is, No, you don’t and if you know what you want to be doing, and you know what you’re here to do, do that right now. Make some hard choices if it’s hard to get there, but do what you’re here to do because we don’t have guarantees. I just feel our work and our individual path are so important that we just have to pursue it.
Mostafa Hosseini 9:58
Absolutely.
How did you manage your confidence moving forward as an entrepreneur?
Do you have any stories around your confidence and what you need to manage it?
Heather Pearce Campbell 10:22
I think so much of it is looking at your own perspective. Confidence is really about perspective and mindset. If we know and get really connected to what provides meaning in our lives, and where we are most purposeful, that might take some inner reflection. But when you are pursuing a life in alignment with that meaning and that purpose, you can’t not have confidence. It’s the thing that will get you to the top of the mountain because you have to be so confident in what you’re here to do, the meaning that this path will provide to you and others to be able to stay on that path.
Does that make sense? To me, it’s about a much deeper conversation of really finding meaning, purpose, what you’re doing, and making choices that are in alignment with that. Then I can be confident that all the time that I put into doing what I do will somehow be worth it. Even if it does feel like hard work and it does feel like some days are out of balance, I can still have confidence in the path.
Mostafa Hosseini 11:34
I think you’ve been experiencing that in the past few weeks with the new program that you’re running and I see that you’re pretty confident about what you’re doing.
Heather Pearce Campbell 11:43
Absolutely. I just did on the leap. That was an idea that wouldn’t go away. I just thought, well, I gotta do it. It’s not letting me sleep at night. I’m just going to have to do it and try it. It was so rewarding.
Mostafa Hosseini 12:00
That is awesome. Good for you.
Do you have any routines or processes that you do to feel more confident and feel better about yourself and what you’re doing when you’re not feeling so good?
Heather Pearce Campbell 12:15
Totally. I think one of the first things is, calling on support. It’s really easy, I find it. I’m a person that holds myself to pretty high expectations. I think a lot of us do. A lot of entrepreneurs do. I think it’s really easy to get into a place where we’re just not feeling so hot about how everything’s going.
Right now, I can speak to the various ways I feel pulled in like 90 different directions, life and kids and school starting and having to compete with all of the online stuff. There’s just a lot but I think having a support network in place for me, it’s so tremendously helpful.
To be able to call on a friend like you, Mostafa, or my sister, or somebody who knows me that could be like, Heather, settle down. You’re doing fine. Do you know what I mean? I think sometimes we need to have other people reflect to us things that we don’t see about ourselves.
Mostafa Hosseini 13:17
Absolutely. I love that. It’s like one of the easiest ways to get confident about what we’re doing. Because as entrepreneurs and as people, we tend to pass a lot of judgments on ourselves and what we’re doing. Whether I’m doing good or not, but then once you call for support, either they will confirm how good or bad you’re doing, or they will just support us. It’s so easy. Just press this button and it’s done. You’re like, “Oh my God, I’ve been thinking about this for the past three weeks.” It was that easy. They’re like, “Yes, it’s that easy.”
Heather Pearce Campbell 13:54
Right! Yes, go ahead.
Mostafa Hosseini 13:58
They will just say, “You know what, Heather, you’re just doing fine. Just keep going. It looks pretty good.” I love the idea of getting support and I think people with more support would generally be more confident.
Heather Pearce Campbell 14:15
Well, I think it’s about knowing our personalities. We have to call on things. One thing that I find tremendously valuable about having a network, having people whether it’s friends, whether it’s sisters, whether it’s other colleagues in the entrepreneurial world, that I can just call on.
It’s also one of the fastest ways to get out of a slump. I think having people that we can call on, is really one of the fastest ways to do a big U-turn, whether we just need a boost in our attitude, we need somebody to say you’ve got this, and keep going.
Connection, you and I’ve talked about this. Being an entrepreneur can be hard work and long nights and a lot of going at it alone and that’s rough. It’s hard to be in that place. Having a network, confidence aside benefits us in so many other ways as well. It’s really one of my go-to’s, just reaching out and connecting with people.
Mostafa Hosseini 15:42
Are you open to sharing an example of a situation where you were like postponing getting help and as soon as you got it, you’re like, I wish I did this three weeks ago?
Heather Pearce Campbell 15:55
Totally. Like every other day with our mutual friend, Brad Wright, who is an Infusionsoft and technology guru, I’ll work on something because I can write. I have a lot of activation energy. Then he’ll learn about it several weeks down the road. He’ll be like, why didn’t you just call me? Why did you do all of that work? Then do it wrong? Why didn’t you just call me and let me show you this one-minute trick that would have gotten this done?
So many times, it still is a lesson that I have yet to fully learn. I had a phone call just before I got on today with you. With a woman who connected with me through LinkedIn, I think we’ve got some mutual friends. She puts on the summit, where she brings people together that served because her clientele is attorneys. I’m in the world of her clientele. She said, I got onto your website and saw what you’re doing.
She just gave me all this feedback because she lives in the world of serving attorneys and talked to me about how creative it is and how unique I am. It felt good to hear that reflected to me from somebody who knows the legal marketplace and it can be something as simple as that. That’s a little message of “Keep going, stay on your path. You’re doing something, right.”
I really wanted to help entrepreneurs understand what they need, understand their own business from a legal perspective so that they could become a more strategic version of themselves that proactively gets the legal support they need.
Mostafa Hosseini 17:27
Absolutely. For those of you who have joined us late, Heather Pearce Campbell is an attorney. She’s pretty good at what she does and specializes in the online world. So far, we’re talking about her story and about confidence. Later, we’re going to dive deep into how to protect yourself online, and protect your business online.
We’re going to be giving away gifts and for you to enter the draw for the gift, you need to be liking, commenting, tagging a friend, asking questions, and subscribing to the show. What would happen is, you would get the gifts that we’re going to be sharing, and it’s going to be announced later. So Heather, tell us about what you do as a business owner?
Heather Pearce Campbell 18:18
Yes. Absolutely. I’ve been practicing law here in Seattle for 18, almost 19 years. There are basically two ways now that I serve my clients. About five years ago, I started. This was after practicing law for 13-14 years where I just saw that there was a whole segment of what I call the small business marketplace.
These are information entrepreneurs, coaches, consultants, online educators, experts, speakers, and authors. Their business models all look very similar from a legal perspective. They are not well served by our traditional legal marketplace and tend not to get their legal needs met until they have a major problem on their hands.
I really wanted to turn that around and provide resources in that space that would help people much earlier on their path, understand what they need, understand their own business from a legal perspective so that they could become a more strategic version of themselves that proactively gets the legal support they need because they have some basic education.
I’ve basically got two businesses, both my Pearce Law, PLLC and the online business that you know, the Legal Website Warrior. Two alternate paths for serving the same clientele.
Mostafa Hosseini 19:36
Absolutely. I’ve known Heather for a few years now. A couple of weeks ago, speaking of reaching out for help, I had a little hiccup that I was kind of worried about. I worried about it for a few hours. I’m done worrying about it.
I need to call my friend, “Heather, I need to talk to you ASAP.” Then we got on the phone. She gave me a few pointers. It was just so relieving to have a friend or a professional like that where you can reach out.
Honest to God, I felt more confident instantly after talking to her. She’s like, here’s the path, don’t do this, do that, and blah, blah, blah. Done! One phone call, less than five minutes.
Back to Heather’s point, if you are struggling with something, if something is bothering you, and bugging you, and you don’t know what to do about it, even if you kind of know what to do about it, reach out for help.
Nice people like Heather and professionals are out there to help. They would help, even if it costs you. Think about the cost of not reaching out for help, which is a lot more than reaching out for help both emotionally, resources, money, and the rest of it.
Heather Pearce Campbell 21:00
Oh, you’re so true. I mean, on that point alone, the number of times I’ve had clients reach out after two or three or six months of fretting, worrying, and struggling with a scenario and anybody who’s ever had a client scenario go sideways, where they have a problem client or somebody stops paying or something happens, where there is some tension in that business relationship. It’s so stressful.
I mean, people spend all kinds of mental energy and emotional energy trying to sort this out. That is energy that should be going back into your business or into other clients. Instead, we end up wasting it on these scenarios because of what you said, we fear the cost of fixing the problem versus the cost of not fixing it. We think about it in the wrong way.
Mostafa Hosseini 21:51
Let’s say that, it would cost me 1000 bucks to get some legal help, and some consultation on that, versus six months of stress, losing my sleep, which will affect me running my business, which will affect me, dealing with my employees and my customers, and it will make me look depressed dumb, and stupid for that matter. Versus pick up the phone and say, “Hey, I have this problem. What do you think I should do?” Then delegate the task and get some direction. Yes, that’s my rant on that.
Heather Pearce Campbell 22:30
Well, you can do my marketing for me. I know it really is true, though. We tend to look at that in the wrong way. If we had more of the proactive, where-are-we-headed mindset versus what is this going to cost me now, we would all be a lot better off?
Mostafa Hosseini 22:47
Absolutely.
What are some of the top mistakes that entrepreneurs make when it comes to their online world and what do you specialize in?
Heather Pearce Campbell 22:58
Yes, absolutely. Well, we’ll cover a few of them. The first one out of the gate is just not understanding the online legal landscape. I tell people, the online world is the wild west of business. People can literally throw up a website overnight, and quote, unquote, be in business but they have no idea what they’re doing there from a legal perspective.
They have no idea what the rules of the road are. Just like you are driving down the freeway at 75 miles an hour, and it’s a 55 limit speed zone, you’re presumed to know the law. In the online world of business, you are presumed to know the laws that apply to your business, and most people don’t.
One is just ignorance. What can you do about it and what comes next is that there are ways to get some basic education. For most people, the biggest problem is not knowing the rules of the road.
Secondly, not maintaining tight control over what other people do for them in the online space. There are a number of times I’ve seen people get in trouble because they didn’t closely manage their website designer or their VA.
They had an affiliate running around the world saying things on behalf of their business, or grabbing images off the internet and sharing them related to some promotional thing and not having any idea that one simple act could totally get somebody in trouble for copyright infringement.
There are tons of intellectual property issues, and copyright infringement issues, because people are not tightly managing other people that are doing things on behalf of their business. That’s a big one.
Mostafa Hosseini 24:42
Okay, what else?
Heather Pearce Campbell 24:44
Yes. Absolutely. One of the things that people do regularly and the way that they end up on my doorstep is that they launch a new website or an online course, or an online sales funnel. That leads to selling some services and information products, maybe it’s a digital course.
3. Then they didn’t have terms of purchase in place.
Somebody purchases their content, turns around, duplicates it, rips it off, puts it inside of their own course, their own online funnel, just totally duplicates somebody else’s work and they don’t have any terms in place that say, here’s what you can do with my work. Here’s what you can’t do. You need a language that limits people in regard to that transaction. Also, that protects your merchant account.
4. The other thing that happens is people end up defending against charge back requests.
One of the first things that happen is, they’ll reach out and say, how do I defend against this charge back request? I’ll say, where are your terms of the purchase? Oh, I didn’t have any.
Well, that’s the first thing that a merchant account or credit card processor asks for when a customer goes to the merchant account or goes to their credit card company and just requests a refund. It’s called friendly fraud.
People do this all day long, where they buy something online. They buy a course of product or program, they actually take delivery of it. Then three months later, there’s a six-month window to make charge back requests. They’re on the phone with their credit card company, claiming there was a false charge, they didn’t do it, can they just have the money back?
Mostafa Hosseini 26:15
Then the credit company will just give it?
Heather Pearce Campbell 26:19
Very often they will. If there aren’t terms of purchase in place. Yes, they really can’t do anything else. They have to believe the customer when they say it’s fraudulent unless they actually did purchase the business. Yes, has collected a certain amount of data they can prove otherwise.
I help people protect against some of that friendly fraud. Make sure that they’re collecting the right kinds of data and make sure that they’re putting the proper terms in place at the point of checkout. That’s a big one. Whatever you’re selling online, make sure that you are protecting it.
One of the other mistakes that are highly correlated, is collecting data online, like list-building activities, doing a giveaway on your website, where people can opt-in and get a freebie, and not posting privacy policies there.
Mostafa Hosseini 27:09
Thanks for the reminder, I definitely need to connect with you to get this paperwork set up.
Heather Pearce Campbell 27:14
Everybody does and everybody who’s doing anything.
Mostafa Hosseini 27:17
Everybody has to connect with Heather, for sure.
Whatever you're selling online, make sure that you are protecting it because there's such thing as friendly fraud.
Heather Pearce Campbell 27:20
Yes, but building a database, which should be really front and center for everybody in the online world right now. Reality is, you shouldn’t be doing that without an adequate privacy policy in place. The risks are too high, when in light of current privacy regulations, in light of the new awareness that people have around this, we have more educated consumers these days. Even that increases our risk as business owners because people know they have rights.
We need to be respectful of those rights. Making sure that people have privacy policies in place, and then following their privacy policy. A lot of people think, Oh, I plug in this document, I’m good. No, it’s not true, you’ve got to follow it. You’ve got to have internal practices that are consistent with those policies.
Mostafa Hosseini 28:08
Absolutely. I’m taking notes and making a to-do list as we’re talking.
Should a Refund Policy be on the website?
Heather Pearce Campbell 28:21
It should be. That’s usually inside of your terms of purchase. Whatever terms apply to the sale there, you’re going to have the refund policy as well. You’re going to have your limitations of liability and going to have your disclaimer. There are lots of other provisions that go into that document. But yes, your refund policy would definitely be covered there.
Mostafa Hosseini 28:40
I know that in my other business. My refund policies save us a lot of headaches almost on a monthly basis. As I said, they buy something. They use the software. Once they’re done, the problem solved, they come back. They’re like, Oh, can I get my money back? You have to have the proper terms in place to make sure that people are not taking advantage of you.
Heather Pearce Campbell 29:06
Totally. On that note, what I remind people is, even just two generations ago, we all literally did business face to face. There was no business that happened globally around the world with a click of a button.
Even though that’s an amazing opportunity, it also brings risk in the door because we literally don’t always know who we’re doing business with. We’re certainly not sitting down face to face across the table from them in most instances and so I call that one or two steps removed from your consumer or your customer.
When that happens, there is just less trust. You have a person on the other side who if he got to know Mostafa directly, probably would never consider ripping you off.
But there’s this removal through the online experience, they don’t always necessarily get to know the individual on a one-on-one basis on the other side, shake their hand and walk out the door of the shop.
There is a certain percentage of people who will take advantage of that and who will request charge backs and who will cause problems for your business. Unfortunately, we have to have policies and documentation in place for those people. Just the truth.
Mostafa Hosseini 30:19
Absolutely.
Is there another top mistake that entrepreneurs make that they shouldn’t?
Heather Pearce Campbell 30:25
This starts even really early in the business. Choosing the name of your business or choosing the name of a signature course or program, or product. Some people will do adequate research, a lot of people don’t. Things that you want to be thinking of when you’re creating a business, creating any names, taglines, anything that provides brand recognition with your business.
I personally wish people would spend a bit more time in that phase. Exploring their options and being really thoughtful about where they want to be going because it’s at that phase that you can set yourself up for success in creating a name or a tagline or a slogan that first of all, can be protected by the federal trademark that’s really unique to your business.
So many people get into trouble creating names that look like stuff that already exists in the marketplace. People end up stepping on the toes of other entrepreneurs, especially if they’ve got registered marks, or they’ve got established names or brand recognition in commerce.
You can unknowingly actually be infringing the intellectual property rights of other people and other entrepreneurs. A little bit more time on the front end, exploring what intellectual property is, what your own plan is, and your own business can save you a lot of heartache down the road.
Mostafa Hosseini 31:50
Could you tell us a little bit about what they should do?
Heather Pearce Campbell 31:54
Spend lots of time on Google. Really get to know Google. If you’ve got a phrase or a business name, and let’s say it’s four words, search combinations of those words. Search for three words and search the various versions of three of those four or five words.
You want to understand the full landscape of what’s out there, that could look like your version especially when it comes to trademark.
If you’re in the United States, you can go to uspto.gov, which is the United States Patent and Trademark Office. Do a basic Word Mark search through the test, which is their search database. Search combinations of words that you’re thinking about using to see what shows up as a federally registered mark.
You want an attorney, if you’re going to do something like a logo or there are more complex searches that you’d have to do. Then you definitely want to know what’s out there, particularly if you’re in the online world.
If you’re in Canada, likewise, and you want to build a brand that’s really recognizable in the state, you would be well advised to go through the same exercise because trademarks don’t get international protection if you’re in Canada, and you’re doing business in the States.
Let’s say 80% of your audience is based in the US, it may be worth your while to go to the uspto.gov and do some searching in the US trademark database. So that you have the chance of filing your own federal trademark if you are developing a business where you want brand recognition in the US.
Mostafa Hosseini 33:38
Okay, Is there something you help business owners with?
Heather Pearce Campbell 33:42
I can help people with their searches, they can do a certain amount on their own. If they’re kind of DIY’s, they like to do it themselves and save a little money.
When you get to the point of really getting serious about registration, I will always tell you to connect with an attorney who can help you because they can help catch some of the errors that you might make on your own.
If you need some guidance around slightly modifying a phrase or modifying something to make it more likely that you would obtain the registration, it’s worth the money you pay in advance to get that versus doing it wrong.
Let me tell you a story of what happens when you do it wrong. It can follow you around for the rest of your business and screw things up for you if you do it wrong.
I have a client, who prior to becoming my client, went through the trademark process himself and used one of the services like Trademark Hero or something. Those are largely automated services run by clerks.
They’re not attorneys looking over individual applications and providing you guidance. He ended up with a mark that landed on the supplemental registry, not the principal registry.
There are two registries here and you want to be on the principal registry because that’s what gives you exclusive use over the phrase or name and that’s usually what people are going for. They want exclusive use.
If you’re on the supplemental registry, by the very nature of being there, you’re precluded from exclusive use. He ended up on the supplemental registry with his trademark. Unfortunately, he didn’t know what that meant and he signed off on it.
Then his business became a multi-million-dollar business. We put like 2.5 or $2.8 million of advanced fee publishing agreements in place for him. He has had trouble getting international trademarks because, guess what, they all look back to the US system, or the original markets filed to examine that mark before deciding whether or not to grant it.
It’s a worldwide brand and got like a cult following. I mean, he’s really developed something phenomenal. That one little hiccup, I hate to even guess how many 10s if not hundreds of 1000s of dollars that will cost him over the course of the lifetime of his business.
Mostafa Hosseini 35:53
Is that not something he can go back, update, edit and modify?
Heather Pearce Campbell 35:59
No, you can’t fix it. That’s right. This is what people don’t understand. It’s done. There are some mistakes that cannot be undone. That’s why I also tell people, it’s never too early in your business building journey, to look in the intellectual property bucket.
I’ve got a Five-Bucket System that I walk people through to analyze how to protect their business.
Intellectual property is one of the buckets. For small businesses and solo entrepreneurs, they often think like, oh, IP strategies, that’s something that the big companies use, and they’ve got the budgets for.
But I’m here to tell you that most of the clients that I serve 80, maybe 90% of the evaluation of their business is in their IP, these are information entrepreneurs.
You have to be looking in that bucket if you want your brand to have a strategic competitive advantage and if you want to really protect what it is that you’re building.
Mostafa Hosseini 36:58
Very interesting. Stevie is saying can you share more about how foreign entities could and should protect themselves in the US compared to their national protection?
Heather Pearce Campbell 37:10
I wish I knew more about her question. I’m not clear what she means compared to the National protection.
I can talk about strategies for protecting your business in the US. They’re largely going to be relevant to people around the world and going to be inside of different legal systems.
A quick overview of the buckets.
The first one is a Business Entity.
You need to create a formal business entity in most places in the world. Especially in the US, to tell the court system, the IRS, and your clients, my business is over here, my personal assets are over here.
You do not want to remain a sole proprietor. That’s what you have when you are an unincorporated business because you do not separate out your business liability from your personal assets. You don’t want to stay there for long if you’re really serious about your business and if you’ve got personal assets to protect.
The business entity is the first bucket. There’s a lot we can talk about there but I’ll stop.
Bucket number two is Business Contracts.
This is where I do a lot of work with clients and how we protect their online businesses. Also this is how we protect their primary services and how we protect their income streams. Then this is how we protect their client relationships, their affiliate or JV relationships because you can put contracts in place to guide and protect those buckets.
If you think of your business entity as a foundation, like literally think of a foundation for your business, think of your business and the actual work that you do every day in your business, the various ways that you serve people and share information. Literally, think of that as machinery.
This big piece of machinery is sitting on this business foundation. That machinery that has nuts, bolts, gears, and all these moving parts, these are the ways that you serve clients. These are when you hire independent contractors, work with vendors in your business, work with JV partners and affiliates, or the variety of ways that you provide your client services, all of these things are protected by contracts.
Contracts really protect the machinery of your business. There’s a lot we could go into with contracts but I just want you to conceptually have that. That’s bucket number two.
Bucket number three is Business Insurance.
Probably whether you’re in Canada or wherever it’s going to be the same. There are certain insurance policies that are available for small businesses. It’s going to be unique to your business and business insurance is a little bit like padding around the whole thing, like around the structure, around the machinery.
Business Insurance gives you additional peace of mind and it protects against very unique kinds of risks. So that’s business insurance. Bucket number three.
Bucket four, that’s the Intellectual Property Protection Plan.
Understanding what it is that you do in your business that creates an intellectual property, understanding what you already have created, and understanding what you will create so that you have a pathway for prioritizing your legal needs in regards to the IP that you are utilizing in your business. So a very important bucket for most people that I serve.
The fifth bucket is a Dispute Resolution Plan.
We have to understand that we have massive opportunities in business for things to go wrong. When I speak publicly, I ask people, have you ever had a client relationship go sideways? Have you ever had a vendor relationship go sideways? Or brought an employee into your business or an independent contractor into your business and had something go wrong?
There are all these ways for things to go wrong and it’s not because we’re bad people. It’s just because we’re human and we make mistakes. We sometimes end up in business with the wrong folks. Dispute resolution is really in my mind, you could replace that title.
So instead of having a Dispute Resolution Strategy, a Communication Strategy. It’s really about communication and the quickness of it, and then I’ll stop.
A quick overview is, when you think about your business, you want to think about all of the touch points that you have, from the very first time somebody has exposure to your business.
It’s probably somewhere through your marketing language, or how you show up online. All the way through your enrollment process and your sales conversations, to the point where you’re putting your client agreements in place, to the point where you’re delivering services, or have any customer support doing follow up.
All of these ways that you are having touch points with your clients, you want to be consistent. You want to use consistent language and create a consistent client experience. Clients hate surprises, especially negative ones. They hate experiences where they’re expecting one thing and they get another.
You really want to analyze your business from the standpoint of, are you using each of those touch points as a way to create a consistent client experience and educate your client and help set proper expectations so that things go exactly how they think they’re going to go. This is how we minimize disputes.
I mean, think of Starbucks. We could talk a lot about the actual quality of Starbucks coffee but the reason why they’re a solid business is that they create a consistent client experience.
People always know what they’re going to get. They’re masters at delivering what they say they’re going to deliver. That’s what makes a solid business.
To minimize disputes, you have to look at your business in the same way and say, am I optimizing on all these client contact opportunities to educate my client, help them become the kind of client that I want to serve? Make sure that they’re really informed about what they’re going to get so that nobody’s disappointed.
There’s more to it than that, what happens when a difficult conversation does come up?
On this point, I’ll just say everybody should go get the book called Difficult Conversations, written by the people that put on the program on negotiation at Harvard. Sheila Heen, Bruce Patton, William Ury, and Douglas Stone, are the authors of that book. They write the other books too, Getting Past No, Getting to Yes, and Difficult Conversations.
They’re brilliant, but all of us in business, and I will say in our personal lives, have the opportunity to utilize the tools that they teach in that book, Difficult Conversations.
What I remind people is, it’s literally money in your pocket as an entrepreneur or business owner, to have the skills that it takes to minimize disputes and help resolve them quickly before they escalate. That book will serve you.
All of the ways that you are having touch points with your clients, you want to be consistent. You want to create a consistent client experience.
Mostafa Hosseini 43:56
Absolutely. Another book that I’m reading is, Never Split the Difference.
Heather Pearce Campbell 44:03
Interesting.
Mostafa Hosseini 44:05
Wow! What you went through was just gold. I’m just going to review some notes tonight that I wrote. Review your JV terms, actually have them in place and then review it. Have a dispute resolution plan, or communication strategy. Think about all the touch points that you’re having with your customers. Then think about, correct me if I’m wrong, what could go wrong and I have a plan in place if something goes wrong.
I guess I need to have that addressed in our terms and conditions and the rest of the contracts to make sure that we’re covered. Set customer expectations properly. So they know exactly what they’re going to get and what they’re not going to get, so you don’t get in trouble later. A few books that you mentioned were Difficult Conversations, Getting to Yes, Getting Past No.
Heather Pearce Campbell 44:58
Yes, phenomenal resources. I’ve got literally copies of them all in my office. I probably have four copies of Difficult Conversations and give that one out like candy.
Mostafa Hosseini 45:07
I’m reading Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss.
Heather Pearce Campbell 45:10
Yes. You’ll have to tell me how that goes.
Mostafa Hosseini 45:13
I will. I recommended this book to my cousin last year. It’s on negotiations. A couple of weeks ago, I got on a call with him. He’s like, “You have no idea how you changed my life. I’m like, how did I do it?” He’s a GP out in Australia in Melbourne and went out to buy a clinic that had a price tag of 135k. Guess how much he bought it for?
Heather Pearce Campbell 45:40
75.
Mostafa Hosseini 45:41
He paid 25 grand for that and was laughing, he was so happy. I’ve done this over and over. I’m going to read that book.
Heather Pearce Campbell 45:54
I take my own advice. That’s right.
Mostafa Hosseini 45:58
I read another book, Getting to Yes by Roger Fisher
Heather Pearce Campbell 46:01
Yes. He’s one of those.
Mostafa Hosseini 46:05
I haven’t read this one. But I want to read it. It’s absolutely important. Like what you just talked about here, is gold. Definitely gold.
Heather Pearce Campbell 46:14
Well, those five buckets, it’s my own framework. I call it the Five Bucket Framework for Business Protection. In the visual of it, you literally see the buckets with the topics. Then there’s a circle of arrows behind the bucket that show up in a ring-like three arrows. What that represents is, you have to continually do what I call a Rolling Risk Assessment of each of those buckets in your business.
When you add a new service, when you bring a new support person in the door, if you expand something that you’re doing in your business, like anytime you make a change, you need to be asking yourself, is there a legal need associated with this new development in my business that I need to have covered?
That’s how you make sure because our business has evolved. This is not a static thing where you just set it and forget it. That’s one of the mistakes that people make. Like, Oh yes, I put something in place years ago. We all know that our clients evolve, our services evolve, our businesses evolve, we need to make sure that we stay current.
It just means anytime you make any kind of substantial change in your business, you should probably take a look back into one of those buckets to see. Do you have a need there?
Mostafa Hosseini 47:25
Absolutely. Now, Heather, I understand that you’re sharing a gift with people that are watching and listening.
Heather Pearce Campbell 47:31
Yes. Absolutely. Totally. I’m giving them free access to my Legal Basics Boot Camp. It’s a little video series that I made. I really wanted it to be bite-sized and consumable. I do need to start looking at some of these topics and figure out in my own business what my needs are.
I’ve tried to do this in a way that makes it feel very accessible that will allow people like literally a chunk of a few minutes at a time to start to create their own legal map and it has access. It’s a video series inside of a little membership course that will give them access to additional resources, help them really create this map for themselves in regards to these five buckets.
Mostafa Hosseini 48:18
Beautiful. What is the value of this gift that you’re giving away?
Heather Pearce Campbell 48:22
Well, I’ve had clients pay me $1,000, to walk them through exactly what is inside those buckets as it applies to their business. The framework itself is really valuable.
I hear from people all the time that go through it. Like, “Oh my gosh, I’m thinking about my business in a whole new way, and now it feels doable. I feel like I know what to do in regards to how to protect myself.” What I really love to deliver is the confidence that I know the next step I should take.
Mostafa Hosseini 48:53
Beautiful! That’s a valuable gift for those of you who are watching or listening later. Heather is sharing her framework, get on our site dailyconference.show/gifts. Download and get access to this. You don’t get a $1,000 gift for free very often. She’s graciously sharing her gifts and her resources with you.
The legal aspect and legal components of your business are very important. You don’t think it’s serious until we get caught in it. Especially if your business is on a growth trajectory. The bigger you grow your offset, you’re going to find enemies, you’re going to get noticed, people are going to start talking and there’s going to be more eyes on you. You’ve got to be protected.
Heather Pearce Campbell 49:47
Oh absolutely!
Mostafa Hosseini 49:48
Don’t wait until you’re in trouble, sleep on it for six months and pick up the phone and say “Heather I need help.”
Heather Pearce Campbell 49:55
It happens whether we want it to or not. There’s David Bear. I went to one of his weekend mastermind events. He was chatting and he’s like, oh, you’re in legal, you’re an attorney, and you support people in this space. Then he laughed. He’s like, “you know there are two types of entrepreneurs, those that have had major legal troubles and those that will.” I was like, “Oh, that’s kind of a painful way of putting it.” But it is true.
For example, I got a call from a woman that I just connected with not too long ago, and she hired somebody off of Fiverr. They’ve got like, you can pay extra to have a design for commercial use, commercial purposes, which she did. But it turns out, this person delivered a piece of work that looks nearly identical to something that already exists in the marketplace.
She had no idea until she’d already created a whole line of clothing around it. The clothing is made, she’s selling it, it’s out there. She’s now freaking out, Oh, my gosh, because there were no terms in place. There’s nothing that protects her in regards to that. She’s now got to figure out what she is going to do with this scenario.
There are all kinds of ways that it pops up and comes into our life. I mean, even when I launched the Legal Website, Warrior, within a few months of launch, and I obviously hit the nail on the head. When I got a cease and desist from another attorney, who fortunately didn’t know what she was doing. I had caught her attention.
For whatever reason, the way that I showed up made her mad. Anyway, she had no leg to stand on. Literally, within a couple of months of starting my new business, I was dealing with that. I mean, I got it shut down pretty quickly.
People just never know where the risk is going to come from and that is the reality of business. There are some basic things that you can do to get yourself protected. That’s why I care so much about getting an education for people so that they can take the right step.
Tune in to yourself, go inward. I think as entrepreneurs, as parents, we can be pulled in so many directions. I just find the magic really happens when we slow down and we go inward, tune in to ourselves and spend time doing the inner work
Mostafa Hosseini 51:52
Heather, if you had to recommend a book to our viewers and listeners, what would that book be?
Heather Pearce Campbell 51:59
Well, I’m sitting, you should know Mostafa, in an office that’s overflowing with books. There’s so many. If you’re female, I would want you to go read Playing Big by Tara Mohr. She has a whole leadership program for women but it is a mindset book, unlike any out there. I just love it. Playing Big by Tara Mohr is one that I recommend generally.
If you are just a human that is having normal life issues which can pop up at times, there’s a brilliant book, and probably will make some people sad to read it but it’s so true. It’s by James Hollis called The Middle Passage. It’s really about so much individuation but finding like releasing our old self so that we can become who we truly are.
To me it’s such a beautiful parallel with who we can be and show up as in our business. That’s one of my all-time favorites I’ve read. It’s a little gem of a book. There’s so much good stuff in there.
In regards to other books that I’m loving right now, I have the HBR series, the Harvard Business Review series on being more productive and work-life balance. That’s an area where I struggle, especially as a parent in COVID doing so much and trying to figure out how to limit my work time and balance the time that I’m required to put in right now with my family.
So, there’s a lot but those are three that come to mind.
Mostafa Hosseini 53:36
Beautiful. Those are amazing suggestions. Thanks for sharing that. If you had a Facebook ad that everyone on earth could see, and you had a message for everybody, what would your message or what would your ad say?
Heather Pearce Campbell 53:59
Right now, it would say tune in. Tune in to yourself, go inward. I think as entrepreneurs, as parents, we can be pulled in so many directions and just find the magic really happens when we slow down and we go inward, tune in to ourselves and spend time doing the inner work. That’s what I would say right now, especially in this weird stressful time. It’s really challenging for so many.
Mostafa Hosseini 54:33
Now for those of you who are watching and listening if they want to get a hold of you what’s the best way so they can claim their gift?
Heather Pearce Campbell 54:42
You can go to my website, I’ve got a contact form there. It’s just The Legal Website Warrior, my brand name legalwebsitewarrior.com. Go there. There are lots of free resources you can, like I said, pop into my contact form. I spend quite a bit of time on LinkedIn, a fabulous platform for people that are really serious about business. I’m a super fan of LinkedIn.
I would love to connect with people there. They can just search my name, Heather Pearce Campbell. Pearce is the unusual spelling P-E-A-R-C-E. I’d be really happy to connect with people there. I’m also on Facebook and Instagram. They can find me anywhere. I always forget to mention this, they can find me on my podcast, Guts, Grit & Great Business.
Mostafa Hosseini 55:32
Guts, Grit & Great Business, if you are listening or watching, go on Apple, Spotify, and the whole podcast world, you do a search, it will show up. She has some great content in there. What is that podcast about?
Heather Pearce Campbell 55:47
It’s really the reason I launched that podcast one, I just love being in the conversation of business. You probably know this by now, I just love business and love talking business with people. I feel we have an opportunity to remember that, especially now in the midst of COVID.
Anytime people are having a hard time and facing challenges, like whether it’s the path of entrepreneurship, building a business, whether it’s becoming the parent that we want to be. It’s a marathon, not a sprint, and we need to have a marathon mindset. That is where true success comes from. Having the grit to show up, keep doing the work, and keep doing the work and keep doing the work.
There’s a lot of business stuff on there. For people that are really in the midst of building their business, they’ll get a lot of valuable insights from all kinds of folks that have been guests that are amazing. We go a lot into mindset and challenges and how to overcome really, really hard things and how to make decisions in the midst of tough times that really will serve us. It’s been a lot of fun. I love my podcast.
Mostafa Hosseini 56:58
Beautiful. I’ve listened to your podcast. You do bring some amazing guests. You guys have great messages in there. For those of you who are watching, listening, do look her up.
Heather Pearce Campbell 57:10
Yes. Guts, Grit & Great Business.
Mostafa Hosseini 57:13
Look that up and tune into her podcast. Heather, is there anything that you would like to mention that we haven’t talked about?
Heather Pearce Campbell 57:27
Well, just a big thank you to you, Mostafa. You’re amazing. I’m such a fan of what you’re doing and the way that you show up to serve people. Really grateful to know you. Happy to be here. I would just say hang in there.
That’s the advice I have to give to myself pretty much on a daily basis right now. Lots of parents are transitioning to fall school and have a million things going on but hang in there. You got this. It’s one day at a time. So that tends to keep me going.
Mostafa Hosseini 57:58
Beautiful. I feel we could continue this conversation for a couple more hours asking and following up questions. You’re such an amazing resource. Now before I forget, there is a way that people could get access to you through your weekly thing. Is that still on the table?
Heather Pearce Campbell 58:21
Totally. Do you want me to share that link?
Mostafa Hosseini 58:23
Please do. Yes.
Heather Pearce Campbell 58:24
It’s just a freeway into my list where people get invites to my weekly Ask Me Anything Live. For people that do have questions, the link is just legalwebsitewarrior.com/askmeanything.
Mostafa Hosseini 58:40
Could you type it out? So, I can display it here?
Heather Pearce Campbell 58:42
Let me put it into the chat for you. That’s something that I started in COVID as a way to serve people and help them get access to legal support and resources at a time when it’s really hard and lots of people are trying to go online. I just sent it to you in a private chat.
Mostafa Hosseini 59:07
Grab it here and I’m going to create a banner. Here, let me see if it shows up. Is it showing up?
Heather Pearce Campbell 59:18
Oh, awesome! Perfect. There it is. Yes. Look at that fancy little scrolling banner. That’s awesome. If people go there, that’ll take them to a page where they’ll get notified. I go live every Monday. But I didn’t do it yesterday because it’s a holiday here. I go live every Monday at 11 am Pacific. If people show up and have questions, I sit and have a chat with them and we get their questions answered. So that’s been a really fun resource.
Mostafa Hosseini 59:43
Absolutely. Gang, a couple of weeks ago, I had a legal issue that I needed Heather’s attention almost ASAP, so I jumped on that call because I am on Heather’s list. She sends that email out.
Heather Pearce Campbell 59:57
Every Monday morning I sent out a couple of reminders.
Mostafa Hosseini 1:00:00
Pacific time. You could jump in and literally ask questions live from Heather and tap into her knowledge and wisdom. She is really good at what she does. You do not want to miss out on that opportunity. Otherwise, you would have to pay a few $100 per hour to get access to someone like Heather and ask questions.
Heather, I really appreciate your time, your feedback, and your expertise. I look forward to seeing what the future will bring and how we can serve and support each other, our tribes, and the people out there.
Heather Pearce Campbell 1:00:34
Awesome. Thank you, Mostafa. I appreciate you and really look forward to it. I’ve been so grateful to know you and appreciate you having me on today.
Mostafa Hosseini 1:00:44
Likewise. Now for those of you who are watching and listening, one way that I help our tribe to build their confidence is through our course Simple Marketing Formula. That’s where we help our students develop their One-Page Marketing Plans.
The way I approach confidence is by simplification. Once you simplify everything, it helps you become more confident. It gives you the clarity and focus you need to grow and scale your business and know exactly what to do, to do that.
We’re running our core Simple Marketing Formula. The next round is coming up from September 21 to 26th. It’s a $2,000 course that we’re giving away for free. I’m not joking when I say it’s free. It’s just like first name, last name, email, and phone number. Heather has been giving me a hell of a time.
Heather Pearce Campbell 1:01:35
I’m telling Mostafa not to be doing this for free. I went through this course. He invited me. I don’t know, a month or two ago. Now I was like, “Okay, I can always use help with marketing. I can definitely use help with marketing.” I showed up and I was like, holy cow! Mostafa over-delivers.
Like you see marketing, I think more clearly than maybe you’ve ever seen it before. I knew bits and pieces of it. I’ve heard all this stuff, different places, but getting it all in one place, like in a framework and in an order that made sense and you see how all the pieces fit. I mean, it was very, very enlightening, Mostafa. That’s a phenomenal offer. Anybody watching should just be sprinting to that sign-on page.
Mostafa Hosseini 1:02:22
I appreciate your feedback. It’s great to have you. You’re like one of my dream students and people that I want to have in class that I could work with. You know your stuff, and I could connect with you. It’s amazing.
It’s coming, it’s free, click here and join us. If you have any questions about what Heather has been sharing with us, leave a comment on the show or reach out to Heather go to dailyconfidence.show/gifts to claim your free gift which she basically gave away her boot camp, that which she gives education on how to cover your legal basis.
If you know a friend that could benefit from this topic, tag them, share a comment, ask a question. When you share our podcast or review our podcast in Apple and Spotify, you will get entered into the draw for a gift that we’re going to be sharing. If you listen to Heather’s podcast, give her a five-star rating, and then we’ll take it from there.
Heather Pearce Campbell 1:03:32
Awesome. Thank you, Mostafa.
Mostafa Hosseini 1:03:36
Thank you. Have a great day. We’ll see you guys at our next show. Bye now.
RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE SHOW:
- Legal Basics Bootcamp – The gift from Heather Pearce Campbell
- Guts, Grit & Great Business Podcast by Heather Pearce Campbell
- Simple Marketing Formula by Mostafa Hosseini
Difficult Conversations by Sheila Heen, Bruce Patton, William Ury, and Douglas Stone
Getting Past No: Negotiating in Difficult Situations by William Ury
Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In by Roger Fisher, Bruce Patton, William Ury
- Never Split the Difference: Negotiating as if your Life Depended on it by Chris Voss and Michael Kramer
- The Middle Passage: From Misery to Meaning in Midlife by James Hollis
