Mastering Relationship Alchemy for Entrepreneurs – Marie-Elizabeth Mali – ep 84

Mostafa Hosseini  00:02

Hello and welcome to daily confidence for entrepreneurs. My name is Mostafa Hosseini. I’m your host for the show at daily confidence. We share tips, strategies and actionable advice that you could use to boost your confidence when it comes to running your business on a daily basis. So, as usual, please make sure to like and subscribe to the show on whichever channel you’re watching.

 If you have any questions, put them in the clinic as a comment in on any social media platform that you’re on. And if you have any friends that could benefit from the conversations, tag them as in a comment and share the conversation and information with them. Today, I have an amazing guest. My guest is Mary Elizabeth. Molly. Welcome, Mary Elizabeth.

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  00:47

Thank you. I’m so happy to be here.

Mostafa Hosseini  00:49

Great to have you. And we’re talking about the relationship alchemy for entrepreneurs, which is an amazing topic. Now. Let me do the proper introduction for Marie Elizabeth and then we’re going to dive into a very interesting conversation here. So so as a relationship Alchemist and two time TEDx speaker, Elizabeth Molly shows visionary women how to cultivate deeper love and connection in their intimate relationships, drawing on her master’s degree in traditional Chinese medicine and over 20 years of working with clients.

She teaches women how to show up as authentic leaders in their relationships and work instead of twisting themselves to fit in Marie Marie Elizabeth, his work has been featured in Thrive global global Saavik, sway and Forbes. And she is also a member of the Forbes Business Council, a published author, with an MFA in poetry from Sarah Lawrence College and an underwater photographer who has a thing for sharks. That’s very interesting. Welcome.

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  02:02

Thank you so much.

Mostafa Hosseini  02:05

How’s your day going? So far?

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  02:07

It’s going great. I am loving it really good space this morning. UT, and

Mostafa Hosseini  02:14

we’re about are you?

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  02:16

I’m in San Jose, del Cabo, Mexico. So in Baja, California sued. And we have a house here and we also have a house in Los Angeles. But today I’m here in Mexico. And I saw whales out the window this morning was

Mostafa Hosseini  02:30

awesome. Really. You saw whales out the window? Yeah,

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  02:34

this is whale season here. So every day they’re breathing and breaching. And I took this picture. I took this picture of a whale in Tonga, which is near Fiji. Oh, yeah, was another big migration spot for them. And next week, we’re going to the Dominican Republic to swim with them there. So aside from sharks, I also love whales.

Mostafa Hosseini  03:01

Amazing. mazing. Amazing. Beauty. So let’s dive right into it. Tell us about your story. What is your story? Well,

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  03:10

I’ve always been self employed. Actually, I’ve been an entrepreneur since my early 20s, when I was trained as a massage therapist, and eventually left the massage place where I was working and went out on my own, and never looked back. And so the thing that was always challenging for me over time was my relationships. Because I love my work. I’m very passionate about my clients. I’m a hard worker, I’m stimulated creatively by work.

And so there were for a long time was this tension between my passion for my work and how much attention I had to give someone at home, and they would start to complain that it wouldn’t be enough attention for them. And there would inevitably be the tent, you know, the arguments and it would not work out. And so after my marriage ended, in 2012, I really began to take a deep dive into studying what makes me tick in relationships, what makes us tick in relationships?

What’s unique about relationships for creators who are very passionate and entrepreneurs who are passionate about what they’re bringing to the world? How do we have both thrive? This is something I’ve been on about for the last eight years and and I’m in a thriving relationship now that supports my success. And I know that it’s capable that we are capable of doing that and having that, but most of us never learned the skills along the way to have both.

Mostafa Hosseini  04:52

Got it. So what are your duties days and who do you serve?

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  04:58

Well, I work primarily with women Sometimes also with couples, and occasionally even with men privately. And we really work on how do you show up in relationship in such a way that you can have the love, be as deep and vast and amazing as you want. So, my people are often creators, they’re often entrepreneurs. They’re passionate, they have their own channel to the thing that they’re here to do. And they want to figure out how to feel as inspired and in love with another person. And not just with their creations, right.

And so, for me, there, it’s a three tiered situation, there’s mindset. How do you feel about relationships? What do you believe about relationships? There’s skill? How do you have more relational skill. And then the third piece is really community with other folks who care about the same thing, which is why I began having a group program because I think community is very powerful.

Mostafa Hosseini  06:04

Interesting. Interesting. Those are three very, three very important components that I’m thinking we’re going to talk more about it. So how did you become the relationship Alchemist?

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  06:18

Well, I see alchemy. So I’ve long had this approach, where I believe we have to integrate the parts of ourselves. And this is as business people and relationship people. We all have a shadow, we all have parts of ourselves that have been relegated to the background because they were not supported growing up, they were punished. They were inconvenient. Maybe they didn’t help us fit in. So we tried to shut them out. And all that stuff back there tends to run the show covertly. So alchemy, it on the psycho spiritual level, historically, it was about turning lead into gold, but metaphorically in relationship. How do you turn the lead of a relationship, the conflicts, the discord, the resentments, the places where you feel disconnected and not skillful? How do you take that and turn them that into gold, which in relationship context means more fuel for intimacy, deeper connection, more transparency, more the experience of being fully known and loved for who you are not for the representative you send out into the world, but for you.

And I believe relationships exist to help us reveal that self, that is the true self. And part of how they reveal it is by revealing when we’re not being that and then providing the love and connection, that’s really the inspiration to do the work.

Mostafa Hosseini  07:56

Love it. That’s the first time that I actually heard about using a problem in a relationship as an opportunity to grow, connect and love, which I’ve used this metaphor in other places like business and general life, but I’ve never thought about it in a relationship like in an intimate at home type of relationship. Can you give us an example of how that could work or something from your experience on a problem that we looked at it differently in turn into into an opportunity to to connect love and grow more than before?

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  08:32

Absolutely. So each of us has a stress what I call a stress style. So when you get overwhelmed, let’s say in your business, each of us has a way that we handle that. So my tendency, as I get more stressed out, I start to move faster. That’s just I’m from New York, it’s my nervous system, I get faster, and I try to do all the things.

And my partner when he gets stressed out. He’s he’s an engineer, he was in the Navy, his training, all of his training is to get more deliberate, more precise. And to avoid making mistake, I move fast, but I might create wreckage. And he moves more slowly. So you can see how our two stress styles could clash. And did often, like before a trip when we’re packing to get leave town until we figured out oh, this clash we keep having is because I’m trying to move faster and he’s trying to slow down. But we both have the same goal, which is to accomplish getting to the airport on time with all the luggage for example. Right?

And so once we realized that it was our stress styles that we’re running into a conflict and not us, we could turn around I’m begin to notice when I start ramping up, instead of judging me, his response is now, Hey, I see you’re speeding up. What could I take off your plate? Are you stressed? What do you need? Vice versa? I see you slowing down? What do you need? So we turn instead of clashing, that thing that used to bug us about each other before now becomes the cue to tune in time to support one another more deeply.

Make sure we’re on the same team I talk a lot about, we can have a whole conversation on same team if you like, because that’s one of the things I teach is radically being on the same team. But this thing that we used to clash about now is the thing that causes us to tune into one another more deeply, get on the same team, and execute more effectively toward the goal.

Mostafa Hosseini  10:58

Okay, so how do you figure we need to connect on an issue? How would you approach it? Let’s say that, let’s say that I’m the husband who gets more focused and tries to avoid mistakes, and you’re running around wrecking things, because you’re speeding up? What’s the best way to identify the problem? Approach and and talk about it, and in a way that is, I guess, productive instead of nagging? And, and you know, biting and you know, poisoning the relationship? Absolutely.

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  11:33

So the important thing is to begin the communication early before, there’s a bunch of charge and resentment built up. Because no matter how pretty, I could teach you all the pretty ways to say something. But if you have judgment and resentment and charge going on underneath, the thing that you say perfectly, your partner is going to react to that feeling, they’re going to react to what they feel. So the first step is to begin communicating soon enough, before you’re already pissed off, is to say, hey, something feels funny here.

Can we talk? Or, Hey, I noticed, you’re speeding up? What do you need? How can I help? Or I have something vulnerable to share with you or I have something important to share with you. Is this a good time? I’m a big fan of beginning conversations with that question, I have something important to talk with you about is this a good time, because it number one cues the listener that to pay attention so that you’re not divided in your attention, you’re actually listening to each other. And number two, you’re not trying to get the person’s attention.

You know, if it’s not a good time than the person could say, it’s not a good time, so many arguments start. Because we’re trying to talk to each other at an inopportune moment when the other person actually doesn’t have bandwidth. So you could avoid a lot of conflicts, if you made sure that both of you actually have the bandwidth to start the conversation. So I recommend starting there, get get the buy in to have a quick Convo.

And also make sure you’re bringing something up before you have a lot of charge on it. Because if you have a lot of charge, you’re gonna react to that. There’s more to the framework, but I’ll stop there.

Mostafa Hosseini  13:30

So great question, I have some important talk about is this a good time. And then the other very important thing is that, and, and I think people let it go for so long, typically, and let that charge build up before they explode. So it’s kind of, I think it’s an skill that we need to develop. It’s

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  13:52

a practice, it’s a skill is not taught, that we need to develop. And depending on our family of origin, we may or may not have had the experience of people actually talking about things in an open way. Right. Most of us probably had the experience of suppress, suppress, suppress, suppress, suppress, explode. At least I’ve seen that a lot.

Mostafa Hosseini  14:16

Interesting. So let’s say that say I reach out and say, Hey, I have some honey, I have some some important talk about is this a good time? And she goes up, I’ve never I don’t think she should say no. Usually she’ll say yes. And then what is the next thing or what’s the next best way for me to bring out the issue?

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  14:37

Yeah, so the next way, the next important thing before you talk about the issue is to let her know why it matters to you. This sounds like hey, I want to talk about this thing. Because earlier today, something happened and I felt us disconnect and I want us to get reconnected again.

Mostafa Hosseini  14:59

Ah, love it. Or

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  15:03

I want to talk about this thing, because it’s been weighing on my mind. And I realized I haven’t been sharing it with you and I want to let you into this vulnerable spot. Or let you know, I want to tell you this thing. So you you are priming their listening by giving them the reason why you want to share it and why it’s important to you.

So that if the thing you’re sharing might feel critical or or hard to hear. If they start to react, you can say, hey, we’re on the same team here. I’m sharing this, because I want to be connected with you. I’m sharing this because I need to share, like I’ve been withholding something, and I don’t want to withhold anymore. So it provides having the goal in mind, just like in business, having the goal in mind gives you the path to get there. Right.

And so anytime in the conversation when it starts to go off the rails, either one of you can say, wait, wait, wait. Our goal here is to get more connected by the end of this conversation. The way it’s heading right now is not leading to that. How do we bring ourselves back?

Mostafa Hosseini  16:20

Hmm. That was gold. Great there gang, if you’re watching or listening, and if you have any questions, make sure you pop them in in a comment and we’ll make sure we will answer it, but letting just going over what just happened and I want to let you in or I just want to make sure we’re not disconnected. I want to make sure that we connect and talk and share.

And that I don’t want to lose my respect for you. I don’t want to lose my love for you. And or Oh, that’s such an amazing relationship nugget right there that I think it could strengthen relationships like, instantly 10 axing the strength of the relationship, like in a matter of five minutes. Absolutely. And it’s just becoming only

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  17:06

after that. Do you then say the thing?

Mostafa Hosseini  17:11

Especially if a man does this to her woman? Yeah. Yes, I see this as a huge opportunity. I love

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  17:20

to hear how you see that as an opportunity. I’m curious

Mostafa Hosseini  17:24

because men don’t do that. Typically men, men if you ever read the men are from Mars, Women Are From I did many women are from somewhere else. Venus Venus, right. And so we just communicate differently. As men, we try to go in our cave, try to figure things on our own. And we we keep our women outside, and we don’t let them in until we figure things out. And then we may talk about it. Me. Yeah, me.

But then if we go in with our woman and say, Honey, I need to let you in on something. She I could see this shirt lighting up, like in a matter of seconds. Oh, yeah. It’s such a huge relationship booster that I’m gonna actually try this today. Oh, good. Let me know. As soon as we’re done, and because I want to let you in on something because I want us to whatever the reason you’re connected,

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  18:27

I want us to, you know, etc.

Mostafa Hosseini  18:30

Alright, just ours just need to let something off my chest. Exactly. Right? I just need to get drain on something because oh, that’s. So I know, men need to practice this more. Because we don’t do this enough. Women

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  18:44

need to practices as much as men because we don’t do this either.

Mostafa Hosseini  18:49

Most women don’t do this either. What

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  18:52

I see is women come with like whether or not the man is available to hear it.

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  19:02

And by setting it up, and then the and then the man is like, whoa, you know, and not a good time here. We’re talking very heteronormative I work with a lot of queer folks, this is not gender, you know, we’re not only talking about heterosexual relationships here, but very often, one partner will be more the emotive partner who thinks who processes out loud.

So what we’re talking about is different processing styles. And what you’re describing is an internal processing style. Someone who goes inside figures it out inside and then only shares it when it’s done when they’ve figured it out like when they’re right. And then what we’re also talking about is the opposite kind of processing style where you figure out how you think and feel by talking about it. Yeah, well, the talking itself is the working out of the situation, which can be very frustrating to an internal processor because you’re like why? don’t have to listen to all this crap don’t want that. So this setup helps the two different processing styles to get on the same team. Because number one, both people are primed to listen, hey, I’ve got something important to talk with you about is this a good time, both people can be 100% Present. Number two, I want to share this with you. Because I want to feel more connected, because XYZ, whatever the reason is, like, my goal for this conversation is that we get to hear whatever the goal is.

And then here’s the thing, you know, when you brushed me off the other day, when I tried to kiss you, it hurt my feelings made me feel like I don’t matter. You know, like, then you say the vulnerable thing. And for either partner, it opens the door for the conversation to be constructive. And to come back to being constructive, if it gets disruptive. And, and it allows for both people who have maybe different processing styles to meet.

Mostafa Hosseini  21:16

So we will talk about how how extremely important this is for business owners, because we’re dealing with men and women all day long. But I guess we need to figure it out at home, make it a habit, so we could transfer it transferred elsewhere, if I’m not mistaken. That’s

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  21:33

exactly right. You know, it’s how we do anything is how we do everything, right. So we’re more skillful with communication at home, where the charge is high. It helps us handle our team better. It helps us navigate client calls, sales calls, being happier, because you feel more connected, and you’re getting enough sex at home.

Has you be more attractive to a potential client because you just feel good. Like it has wide reaching effect. You

Mostafa Hosseini  22:09

just read my mind like, guys, if you’re listening to this, try what we just we just went over because I’ve done it in the past, but certainly don’t do it enough. And watch the quality of your relationship, quality of your sex and the quality of everything jump up instantly. Like did they have

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  22:27

as your a lot of confidence builder, right?

Mostafa Hosseini  22:30

Oh, my Laura, and it will just it will just be amazing. She’ll just be there for you just very easily and quickly. Now let me let me bring this up, because so men cave in, try to think it through. Women like to talk about things. Right? And so usually what women in my experience resort into is their mom, their sisters, their girlfriends, are the ones that are gonna get on the phone talk about the issues, but not the partner.

So what advice do you have for women to reach out to their partner, which we talked about as like maybe this is not a good time? And or maybe she’s going to open up and he’s going to give her some smartass response as to oh, just call. We do that. So what advice do you have for women adopt this so that one they do this properly?

Do they don’t do it and not get hurt by his response? Or has smartass response percent? absalutely?

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  23:34

Great question. Well, first of all, it’s the same framework. And you know, number one, see if it’s a good time, and you’re letting him know there’s something important. Number two, telling him why this matters, what the goal of the conversation is where you want to be by the end. Number three, is to say it as simply and in as few words as possible.

Just like I said it when you brushed by me the other day, rushing off to work and forgot to Kiss Me Goodbye, it hurt my feelings. Could we just have a kiss before we leave each day that would that would feel so good. A simple clear communication. The second piece that’s key came into my mind as we were talking and it’s going to come back

Mostafa Hosseini  24:29

so the first one is to just speak about it and make sure that you just nicely in as I think the key word there was in as few words as possible, as few

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  24:39

words as possible. Like this is something Oh, yes. And the second piece is try not to catch if you are in a heterosexual relationship drawn out to catch your man while he’s doing something else. And because it’s very hard to have a split focus and be an effectively sooner, number two, the other piece is to pre frame what you want from the conversation. I’m going to tell you this thing. And I just want you to hear me.

Or I’m going to tell you this thing, and I want your input on how to fix it. My partner has learned to ask me that. So I am in a relationship with a man and my partner, I will bring something to him that’s weighing on my mind, or that’s up for me. And before he gets too far, he’ll say, if I haven’t pre framed it, he will say, what are you wanting right now? Are you wanting to vent? Like, do you just want me to listen? Do you want me to help you find a solution?

Do you just want to cry and be held like I’m here for all of it, just let me know which, which you want from me, and I’ll show up that way. And that way, I get the listening, the kind of listening that I’m actually desiring. And we don’t get into this habitual you know, the common clash is like, don’t try to fix me, like, I just want to be heard, you know, like, you don’t have to have it come out like that, because you’re actually letting them know, in advance.

Which partner you want. Do you want the FIX IT partner? Do you want the listening partner? Do you want the holding partner that just gives you some comfort? Which partner do you want? Tell him how to show up so he can give you the right thing and win with you. It’s a gift to tell your man which man you want. In that moment, from my perspective, it’s a it’s a win for the guy, because he knows, okay, great, I’m gonna I’m gonna do this.

And he gets to win because he gives the right support, you know, and it’s a win for me, because then I get the listening or the hug or the solution, the ideation that I need. So it’s a win for both people to be clear about who you need right now. Does that make sense? Absolutely. Don’t you think it would be cool if the women in your life did that more?

Mostafa Hosseini  27:16

I think if you’re absolutely

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  27:18

right, where it’s like, hey, Mostafa, I need you to I want you to listen to this thing that’s weighing on me. And I don’t need you to fix it. I just I just need to hear myself talk out loud. Are you willing to just let me talk out loud, figure it out. And I bet you’d be like, Great, I’m off the hook. I don’t have to fix it.

Mostafa Hosseini  27:37

But that I’m also thinking about the men, that would be a total jerk. And they would respond like a total ass and and just not be there and not hold the space for her to connect. What advice do you have for both men and women, for women to what to do if that happens? And for men to let’s just talk about women and what to do either to avoid it. Yeah, or what to do when that happens. Let’s just talk about that first. Got

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  28:16

1. So to avoid it, you use the conversation framework I just downloaded to you. Because if you’re not just like dumping your unmediated stuff in his direction, you are probably going to get a better response. But if you’re just like dumping your stuff over there, you might get a smartass response we might get like a half assed response because he’s not really listening.

I will say there’s a caveat. If if there’s been a pattern in place in the relationship for a long time, of sniping, criticism, smartass response to get comments and things, it could take a minute to undo that you’re undoing a pattern that’s already in place. So it might take a minute for that to stop. So I have two suggestions here. The first one, if he does something dumb, just ignore it. It’s like training a puppy. You reward the behavior you like, you ignore the behavior you don’t like.

This takes a lot of self well to not take it personally. This is where we have to be an adult. Number two, if your feelings are hurt, you start the process over again. Hey, honey, I have something to share with you so important share with you. Is this a good time like maybe the next days? And then it’s like I want to do this because something happened yesterday that had me feel disconnected from you and I want to reconnect Great. Hey, you know when you said that thing yesterday that hurt my feelings.

Next time would you please either frame it, you know, say it differently or just maybe don’t say it at all.

Mostafa Hosseini  29:57

My mind is running in some way. Some different directions. But go ahead. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean. So

Mostafa Hosseini  30:12

this this is such a such an important and powerful process. And I’m thinking, I don’t know why I’m constantly thinking that about men who wouldn’t open up to this while we’re talking, because May I May I share it, it’s about vulnerability Exactly. As as, as, as men, I’ve seen many men who do this to their women as when she tries to open up, he will just reject her, he will brush her off, or provide some smartass one liner to just shut her up. And he will move on. Now, couple of things that don’t

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  30:52

want to stay on that spot. Can Can we just stay here for a second? Absolutely. So my guess is when that’s the response, is that it, it has not felt safe for him to be open, like, either she’s been very critical of him, or a family, you know, or he was raised in a family where it wasn’t safe to be open. And so the way I hear that, so for example, I had a client who came to me to save her 28 year marriage because he was threatening to divorce.

And he had a habit of sniping and being critical of her. And as she worked with me, she got stronger, and she stopped taking the bait, she stopped reacting to his barbs, and began asking more effectively for what she actually wanted. And for some time, he still tried to get at her in the old way. Because he got energy from that there was a part of him that kind of liked getting a rise from her and having her get, he got energy from that.

And until he realized, Oh, I’m still gonna get energy from her. But it doesn’t, I don’t have to get it that way. Like key began to open up, he began to offer to help out more around the house, he began to invite her to go do things when he had stopped doing that, because his own safety in the relationship began to open when she began to hold herself differently.

So that’s example number one example number two, if he doesn’t, if if if you’re with somebody, and they’re not willing to begin to open up, then you have a decision to make for how long you want to stay in that relationship. Like, if there’s no willingness to shift the dynamic. And you’re making an effort to be responsible and clear in your communication, and vulnerable and all of that, and you’re not, and your partner is completely not receptive to that and belittling you. Goodbye.

Yeah, you don’t need that. Right. So that was that’s my two responses to that. Absolutely. Men usually transform, treated with the respect they deserve. And when they’re approached in this way.

Mostafa Hosseini  33:29

So three things that popped in my mind as we were talking about it. One way I read somewhere that if you visualize a certain certain situation is more likely to start happening. Like if you want your partner to be happy, visualize your partner being happy. And as you walk into that situation is more likely to happen.

And the fact is, if so I always tell people that if you can’t visualize something, chances are you’re not going to achieve it. If you have a hard time visualizing your husband happy, chances are you’re going to credit or your wife or husband, or you’re going to be critical, and it’s going to turn into it. Pardon my French shit show that you probably not going to like, yeah, the other thing that popped in my mind is the book, Chris boss, the book on negotiation, he said, he’s just asking questions that has a no response. Because people especially men, love saying no, so I’m like, is this a bad time to chat? And he’d be like, No, if it’s not, because people enjoy saying no, yeah. Would you be against having a two minute conversation?

No. Would it hurt your feelings? If I if I tell you something that might help? No. So that no tailored questions and I’ve tried this in business and in sales and in relationships, people love saying no. And now that one piece of advice from him made a massive difference to me. And so I think going out to your man and asking him That way, whatever and men or women, I think getting a no response might help with that.

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  35:04

That is so interesting. I’m gonna have to play with that.

Mostafa Hosseini  35:07

Yeah. That’s like would you be against hearing me out for a minute? No, right.

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  35:14

Yeah, no, I would not be against that. That’s interesting. Yeah. It’s like, you get a little No, yeah yeahs out, right. Yeah. And then you can be a yes.

Mostafa Hosseini  35:25

Yeah, exactly. So people will give a no a lot easier than giving Yes.

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  35:30

Interesting. Right. That’ll be talk.

Mostafa Hosseini  35:35

Is it about time to chat? No, what’s up? Yeah. Yeah. So there was a third thing that popped in my mind. And I told the so anyway, let’s move on. Can you tell us how this would help a man to listen to her woman in a relationship in his work? And we’re going to dive into our next section, which is would be a good segue. Would women prefer a man that is more vulnerable and accepting than a man? That is not? And what advice do you have for men in specifically, on this regard?

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  36:20

I think it depends on the woman, I don’t, I don’t see a blanket statement. That’s possible here, because some women prefer a man who really takes the lead. And you know, and she prefers to follow. And other women, like entrepreneurial women are, are in charge all day long. And it might be difficult to transition to a man who’s always taking the lead. So she might want a partner, where there’s more give and take, you know, where they’re where they’re bouncing ideas off each other. And both input both people have input.

So I think it depends on the makeup of the of the particular relationship in question. I will say, what makes for a better listener, is you, you, you have the right, like, if someone is telling you something in such a way that you can’t process it, say that, like my partner, if I start talking to him about in depth stuff, while he’s driving, he will say, You know what, I can’t actually sort this out right now and, and pay attention to the road in the way that I feel comfortable.

So please bring it to me later. Like he has a boundary, he has a very strong boundary around what I bring up to him when, so that he can be more effective. It’s not because he doesn’t like to hear me talk. He loves to hear me talk. But he wants to hear me talk at a time when he can actually feel and receive and reflect and be present. And so for him, that’s not when he’s driving. It’s not when he’s in the middle of doing something else. It’s when he can be present with me.

So I think it’s important to be clear about your boundaries about what you can and can’t hear when and I think it’s you also like, there, this probably going to get me in some hot water what I’m about to say, Come at me internet, I’m about to say some shit, okay. But I think we’ve gotten into a situation where people have gotten in a habit of communicating with each other, with a lot of disrespect.

And I think there’s an environment where men in particular, you know, women have always been disrespected like because in the vicar, but we’ve we’re in a situation where, where men get bashed a lot, and the innate beauty of the masculine, which exists in both women and men, but the innate beauty of the masculine it doesn’t get affirmed or acknowledged, like it should be, just as the innate beauty of the feminine which exists in both women and men also does not get acknowledged, and you know, it gets denigrated a lot. So in this climate, where our inner masculine and feminine are duking it out half the time, we are mean to each other outside in our mouth to the other person, we get disrespectful and mean.

And I believe that needs to change. I think people would be better listeners if they were respected.

Mostafa Hosseini  39:53

Yeah, no, I agree with you. I think we live in a day and age where masculinity is being bashed. It’s not I’m not against. So I’m not promoting men being assholes to their partners in any. I mean, natural, nice masculinity, something that, as far as I’ve seen women actually appreciate and love and Paulo. Absolutely. I mean, I think women lose their interest in a man. If he’s not that. And so.

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  40:26

Yeah, and and women, you know, I think we also lose interest when we’re not respected, too. Absolutely. I think it’s a two way street. And, and so I’m really about how do you create loving, respectful, transparent, honest, vulnerable communication so that your relationship is a haven. So your relationship is a place you want to come home to? And fill up with?

To go slay the dragons tomorrow at work? You know?

Mostafa Hosseini  40:59

Absolutely. You know, I always talk about this book Men are from Mars and women from are from Venus by John Gray. Yeah, I always tell people, if you don’t read this book, whether you’re a man or woman, you have no clue how your partner is talking to you. And you have no clue how men and women in general talk and think and communicate because we speak think a different language when we’re in a different spectrum than women.

And women are just totally different to we communicate and talk differently. And for me, until I read that book, I had absolutely no clue how to communicate with women. I thought I knew how to talk, but I just didn’t. And it just opened my eyes like, massively. Here’s the third thing that I forgot that I’m just going to bring it up real quickly. I’m reading a book about called the lies we tell ourselves by John

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  41:53

Fredrickson, yes, I’ve heard of it. I haven’t read it yet. It’s been

Mostafa Hosseini  41:58

an eye opener for me. And in there, he talks about how we as let’s say, Me, as a husband, I make a fake identity for my wife that I want her to live up to that, yeah, identity, or that image, that she’s not correct. And that that lie we that we tell ourselves creates friction. Yeah. And then what happens is that we don’t accept the person as he or she is. And that that’s what creates a lot of relationship issues as well. Absolutely. Going back to, I guess, accepting people as they are, so that it doesn’t create those issues, and, you know, the friction and all that, and it’s just a lot easier to communicate, like accepting.

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  42:44

Absolutely, I mean, if that’s the kind of relationship by encourage and like to facilitate to make happen is a relationship where each person is their own person, they get to be themselves. And then they choose to be together as a team, you choose each other, because the connection that exists between you fuels, each of your growth fuels each person’s expansion into the truth of who they are.

 Like, if you’re trying to control your partner, to make them in this little picture of who you think they should be. That’s not love. That’s manipulation. Like that’s not a relationship, that’s a fantasy. Like, that’s just like, not gonna work. And eventually, one, or the other person is going to wake up and need to get out of the box.

Mostafa Hosseini  43:40

Absolutely. So let’s talk about why it’s important to prioritize our intimate relationships as entrepreneurs, and how does that affects us?

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  43:52

Well, the first most direct effect when we don’t prioritize our relationships is that they simmer in this, you know, unhappy kind of neglected frequency, and it drains our energy at work. I mean, how many times are you distracted at work rehashing the fight you had last night, like you can’t focus because you’re pissed at something they did or said, you know, and so by tending to your relationship, and making sure that that feels great, you can actually be at work and focus on work.

It creates a healthier division, you know, your mental space. And also, I think, in this might be more particular to women. What I’m about to say is because women we attract a lot by our radiance, and I don’t mean like physical beauty, I mean, the energy that we come with, and the more radiant we are, the more we tend to land clients. Entrepreneurs. I’m sorry. we can do now. So do attending to your relationship, having your relationship feel juicy and amazing and connected, and you get to feel expressed and you get to receive, and you get to give and all of the yummy stuff actually has you be more attractive, you know, people can’t put a finger on it, but they’re like, Oh, that one has the it factor.

And I maintain that the if factor is you being a turned on person, happy in your life. And, and having wonderful personal relationships, whether it’s a romantic or friend, or, you know, not everybody has a romantic relationship all the time. But you have friendships you have family, and the more those relationships feel good, and and lift you up, and have you feel wonderful. The I, it directly impacts your bottom line. And here’s a very specific example. When you get good at asking for exactly what you want in your relationship without shame. Without fear, you actually get better at sales. It helps your sales conversation,

Mostafa Hosseini  46:09

though, can you say that one more time, please? Yeah, the better

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  46:13

you get at asking directly for what you want in your relationship at home, being clear about your requests, receiving a person’s yes or no with equanimity. And moving on, the better you’re going to be at sales. If you can’t ask for what you want at home, if you get all like, uh, you know, could you maybe go to the store?

Because like, I can’t, I’ve got the cat on my lap and my back hurts and I’m just too tired. And it would you get me that thing. You know, if you’re like doing that thing. I can guarantee you you’re messing up your sales conversations, like you can’t do the sale. That

Mostafa Hosseini  46:52

just gave me goosebumps. That was a powerful sentence right there. But any you said earlier, the way we do anything is the way we do everything. Yeah. Right. So

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  47:04

I want you to look at like if there’s a chronic issue happening in your business? How could you work on that in in your relationships, and get better at it? And vice versa? If there’s a chronic issue in your relationship, but you’re good at it and your business? How could you practice it and bring it over, so you get better at it and your relationship?

Mostafa Hosseini  47:27

Interesting, very, very important. And again, it’s not I think that extends to our immediate family, mom, dad, brothers sisters and, and that will trickle down to our business and the way we deal with our co workers, customers, sales, you name it.

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  47:46

Yeah, like if you have more capacity to deal with a family member who’s upset. And you can sit and be with that, without getting reactive, you’re going to be more effective with a team member who’s having a problem with a client who’s having a problem, because you’ll be you have practice at staying steady, in volatile situations. But if you lose your shit, every time somebody says something to you, like it’s going to hamper your ability to do business.

Mostafa Hosseini  48:16

I think honestly, you should. That’s something you should have like a course around for businesses and corporate people on how to connect and communicate a work using the exact framework that you’ve been talking about, like, I need to talk about something important to you, is this a good time? Or is this a bad time? What you did to me the other day, or what you said the other day, or what you’ve been doing is hurting me in this way.

And I don’t want I want us to have say a good working relationship. And I hear a lot of people talking about issues like that. And and I believe that creates a lot of issues like like corporate politics and get like, you know, backstabbing and stuff like that. And I think people would be in a much better place and a much more comfortable working environment if they could communicate on small issues or big issues like that and address things.

And I think a lot of times I don’t know what I’m doing to people. And when they come up to me and say, Mostafa, here’s what you said the other day, and that really hurt my feelings. I’d be like, Oh, my God. I will fix that. You i You think people know that they’re doing that they’re doing that intentionally to hurt you or to do whatever but chances are very high that they have no clue they’re doing that to you. And if you bring it up, it will be fixed instantly and or with a conversation. So that so what I’m trying to say is you should have some training for corporate specifically for companies to teach team members on how to communicate like that effectively because

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  49:57

I love that idea. I love that I I actually recently came up with a similar, it’s a little different framework, I call it, it’s called p a r t. So I call it do your part, you know, P period, a period. Anyway, it’s an acronym, do your part for greater connection, you know, to build more connection. And that’s, that’s a training, I’m thinking about bringing but But it’s interesting, because it’s a different framework than this one.

Mostafa Hosseini  50:28

program, how to reduce Yeah, to do your part. Yeah. And increase the profitability of your team, I would write up for my team. Like, do you think there’s a bunch of issues with your team members? Absolutely. Would you be against fixing that? Absolutely not. There’s no. Right. So,

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  50:55

thank you.

Mostafa Hosseini  50:57

We talked about this briefly. But how does the healthy relationship at home impact our bottom line?

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  51:05

Well, I already said like, you know, if, if your communication isn’t working well at home, because you stifle things you don’t say what you actually feel, you’re not, you don’t feel safe to ask for what you want, then that’s directly impacting your bottom line, because you probably suck at sales. Number two, if you’re if you have trouble handling objections at home, you know, like, if you lose your shit, if your partner doesn’t want to do the thing you want to do, but hey, I want to go to the movies Friday night?

Well, I don’t Wow. You know, like, if you can’t handle it, no, at home, chances are, you’re not gonna, you know, like it. And again, the energy piece if you’re distracted at work, because things at home are volatile, and dramatic and tense and not going well, or, or they’re just flat and dead. And you don’t know how to turn it back on again. That’s a distraction at work. That’s bandwidth that you could be putting toward your business that you’re losing on looping thoughts, distractions. Oh, yeah.

Mostafa Hosseini  52:15

Right. I mean, if it’s eating away at you all day long, and you’re thinking about it, and it’s running in the back of your mind, chances are it will affect your work, and it will affect your output. It will Yeah.

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  52:30

sneaky thing, like if a client or a co worker shows up and, and acts in a similar way that falls into that same thing, you’re going to react to that person from that, from the fight you’re having with your spouse, you’re gonna react,

Mostafa Hosseini  52:46

you’re gonna unleash on your customer, you’re

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  52:49

gonna lease on your customers, or your team member, and they’re gonna be like, this guy. And it’s worth it to have your relationship at home feel nourishing and amazing, because it just makes you smoother and happier at work. Absolutely.

Mostafa Hosseini  53:09

So Mary, Elizabeth, could you please tell us about the gift that you’re sharing with our audience?

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  53:14

Oh, absolutely. So I have a quick assessment assessment that takes about four to five minutes to take. And it asks, it’s 20 questions in five different arenas that I find very important around having a great relationship. And in a short period of time, like four to five minutes, you can see and celebrate what’s working great, where you’re strong, where the strengths are, and see where you need to focus your attention because awareness, awareness is the is the precursor to change, right?

If you want to improve something, first, you have to see what needs to be improved. And so this assessment helps you say, Oh, we’re doing great over here. But I can see, oh, we tend to, you know, we don’t always resolve conflicts very well. Or, oh, we need to put attention on what our vision is for the relationship where we’re headed, or, you know, you get to see directly where you need to put your attention so that you can know where to focus your efforts, because otherwise it can be like, oh, I want my relationship to be better and I don’t know what to do.

This will give you the basis to know what to do, because you know what to focus on because you’ll see very quickly which scores are high and which scores are less high.

Mostafa Hosseini  54:34

Love it so gang if you’re watching you’re listening, get access to a relationship alchemy assessment, which will take you four to five minutes. The link is in the comments on the show on social media and it’s in the descriptions of the show, get that link, do the assessment and do reach out to Mary Elizabeth to tap into her wisdom.

This was a very enlightening conversation and I could see us going for easily for Another two hours more time, because there’s way more to cover. But unfortunately we run out of out of time today. So do get access to the relationship alchemy assessment, and do reach out loan that can I ask you some, some questions, some more personal questions about you? Yeah. All right. So what’s a new thing that you have tried recently?

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  55:25

in business or in general and in general? Life? Oh, new thing I tried recently. I don’t know if I can say this publicly. I, I just did an Ayahuasca ceremony for the first time with a beautiful Mexican shaman couple. I’ve never felt drawn to do it before. I’ve always felt it was very commercialized and I don’t know, not for me.

And after I met these people, I thought, oh, I can be in ceremony with them. And it was a really beautiful experience. I we were outside under the night sky, watching the moon go across the sky. I just felt such gratitude for life and really felt connected.

Mostafa Hosseini  56:10

What’s the name of the ceremony again, Ayahuasca, Ayahuasca.

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  56:15

It’s a plant medicine that indigenous people, it’s a combination of a few roots, and you drink it. And, and it’s good. It’s done in ceremonial context. You know, it’s not for me, it wasn’t very psychedelic. For some people. It is psychedelic. But I didn’t have any visions, I had more just physical sensation of bliss. And it’s different different times, we’ll see if I ever do it again, if it’ll, if I’ll have visions, I don’t know.

But for me, it was I felt really connected to there’s there’s a song that Mercedes also made very famous that’s called gracias por la vida, which in the words are grasses and a vida que model tanto. Like thank you to life that has given me so much. And it still makes me emotional. The woman started singing that song during the ceremony, and I just was like, That’s it. If I can just live in gratitude each day for life that has given me so much. That’s enough.

Mostafa Hosseini  57:19

Love it. So I want to check it out. I’ve been recently told about the world of psychedelics, and I haven’t, I don’t have enough commercial information about it. But apparently, it’s an entire world worth exploring. And I

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  57:35

highly recommend checking out maps.org MAP E. Ma p s.org. It’s an organization that has been studying the psychotherapeutic use of of psychedelics, and you know, because there’s a lot of research being done into psychedelics and psychotherapy, and how to do it, you know, under doctor’s supervision, and that people are healing, depression and suicidal ideation with ketamine. I mean, there’s all sorts of amazing research going on.

And so Maps is a really good hub. maps.org is a good organization to really get foundational knowledge in the research. And just, you know, they’re doing a lot of work to legalize and use substances in ethical and medical, you know, responsible ways, because it’s not about it being a party drug. Yeah. Interesting.

Mostafa Hosseini  58:34

Now, what are your top two or three favorite books, books that have made a massive difference in your life or business are books that you recommend all the time? Yeah.

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  58:46

The universe is a green dragon. Brian swim? Let me see, I think it might, it might actually be under my computer. I have to prop my computer on books. So I can’t pull it out and show it to you without wrecking my setup. But Oh, good. It’s That’s a gorgeous, it’s it. He’s a scientist, and cosmologists, and it’s all about cosmology, the cosmos being this alive thing that we participate in, and they being creative and alive.

And we’re plugged into that, and it’s really a it’s a gorgeous, small book, thin. So the universe is green dragon. Let me see. Another seminal book for me. I’m trying to think of one on relationships. Actually, my relationship coach, my former relationship coach, wrote a gorgeous book called uncompromising intimacy.

And that’s by Alexandra Stockwell. And it’s really a lot of what she teaches in the book, she talked to us, and they’re very effective. things. And so that’s a great relationship book that I recommend. And I love the work of s. Astaire Perell as well. So mating mating in captivity was a really important book to me as I was coming out of my marriage and embarking on this deep study. So mating in captivity by Estera Parral is another foundational favorite book.

Mostafa Hosseini  1:00:32

I’m just curious, have you read the alchemist?

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  1:00:35

Oh, I love the alchemist. I love that’s another one of my favorites. Because

Mostafa Hosseini  1:00:40

as soon as I saw like the title of the alchemist, Oh,

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  1:00:44

I did years ago, I love I love all of Paolo coils book. I went through like a Paulo Coelho phase. And like eight of his books, I tend to I tend to tunnel vision. You know, I get into an author. And I’m like, I’ve read all the things. I went through a couple of years of Paulo Coelho, like I love it.

Mostafa Hosseini  1:01:03

Cool. Now, what’s one advice that made a massive change in your in your life? Ah

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  1:01:16

I would say the biggest, which is the advice I actually give Now typically, is to stay curious. Like, anytime you think you know you’re dead. You know, if we can cultivate curiosity with each other, with ourselves with life? Oh, wow, I’m having this experience right now. Isn’t that interesting? What can I learn from that? This is weird. Like, the more we can have, it creates an openness and a flexibility. And my dog does not like curiosity, clearly. It creates an openness and a flexibility of thought that I think is necessary. Love it.

Mostafa Hosseini  1:02:06

If you had a Facebook or Google ad, where everyone on the planet with access to internet could see what should be a few billion people. What would your message be for the people of Earth

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  1:02:22

that you can have the depth of love and connection that you want. It’s possible. That’s possible. Love. And the corollary is, you’re not broken. You know, you’re not broken. There’s nothing wrong with you. You just need to learn how to show up. That’s too many words. But I’ll just stick with you can have the love and connection you want.

Mostafa Hosseini  1:03:02

Love it? Where Elizabeth, this has been an absolutely amazing conversation. I really appreciate you sharing your wisdom and showing up 100% and being open to sharing your knowledge to Could you share with us where people can find you. And they find out more about you other than downloading your gift where else they could access and reach out to you. Yes.

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  1:03:25

So my website is relationship alchemy.com So you can go there. I also have a podcast titled relationship alchemy which is in all the podcasts places, including YouTube. I also have a weekly live broadcasts that I do like this on Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, so follow me on Facebook at relationship alchemy m e m, which is also Instagram, which is also LinkedIn. And so I do offer a lot of free content and a lot of ways to access this knowledge. So those are the main places to start. And I have a program for women that’s beginning in April and so if you want to do a deep dive with me for a year, and really overhaul from the ground up, how you do relationship so that it becomes loving generative, all the amazing things we’ve talked about today. Then reach out through the website, take the take the assessment, get on my list, reach out book a call.

Mostafa Hosseini  1:04:33

Absolutely love it. So gang, do a search for her name. Join and subscribe to our podcast follow her and subscribe to her YouTube channel. And what what what what you bring up milkman Meadows Elizabeth is very important and I think it makes a massive impact in our relationships in our working relationships. And I see that very easily. How a lot of problem czar springing from this big or small issue. Yeah.

And it trickles down in different areas of life friendships, relationships and business and, and so it’s important to think about it, work on it, work on fixing it and work with a professional like yourself and possibly in a group that you would put together, I think that your program would have a support group and a support component, which makes it even easier for people to get in there, get feedback and work on improving the relationships that will show up in their bottom line and the results and the rest of it.

So again, really do reach out search her name, and as usual, please like and subscribe the channel, if you know anyone that could benefit from this conversation, which should probably easily be eight or nine people out of 10 people that you know, tagged them in a comment. And I’m, I believe improvement can be made.

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  1:05:57

It’s true. And you know, only one person I work with couples as well. But I will say that if one person in a relationship is committed to improving, it changes the dynamic very often, the park, you’re in an energetic bond with someone, so you start changing something, the connection will change. So if you have a partner who maybe isn’t into all this stuff, it’s okay. If you start showing up different, they’re going to shift. Absolutely. That’s your answer. But hopefully,

Mostafa Hosseini  1:06:34

you’re absolutely right. It’s an equation where like A plus B equals C, and if you if your say B if you change the way you look at things, your energy, the way you look at things, that way your approach your partner, the result of that relationship or that equation, it must change. It’s like a physical mathematical equation.

Yeah, I know some people don’t think about it that way. But it is it’s very simple as a plus b, c, and if you change one of the variables, the result is going to change. And I’ve seen people saying, oh, but he doesn’t care, right? Or she doesn’t care.

But it’s like, as long as you change stuff, like quick example, I started thinking about a person that I deeply care about differently, and the results changed instantly. And, and I actually put a picture of them smiling, right, it’s right in front of me right now as the background of my computer, which I’m like, when I talked about the visualization of the person and how you want to them to be for you and it has started changing.

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  1:07:43

Amazing. Yeah, we people respond to how we think and feel about them. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Beautiful. Appreciate

Mostafa Hosseini  1:07:53

1. Thank you Yang. Please again, like and subscribe. If you have any questions, put them in a comment on social media on whichever channel and we will get back to you either me or Mary Elizabeth, and we’ll go from there. My name is Mostafa Hosseini, your host for the show and I look forward to seeing you on our next episode. Bye now.

Marie-Elizabeth Mali  1:08:13

Thank you