Relationship Strategies: Boost ROI and Build Connections – ep 118

Mostafa Hosseini  00:02

Welcome to daily confidence for entrepreneurs and this episode you will discover where you could be more effective and connected in your relationships, tools you can use to build rapport and trust right away, and you will discover how to connect with tough clients. My guest today is Leah Fink. Welcome, Leah. Hello. Good to see you.

We’re both in Calgary, Alberta. That’s probably doesn’t happen on my show very often. No. And so we got a bunch of snow here a week or two ago, but it kind of warmed up a little bit. And by warm I mean, it’s close to zero degrees Celsius that’s warm for us during this time here. It was like minus 30 for a few years, few days not for a few years. And yeah, so how’s your day so far?

Leah Fink  00:53

It’s been fantastic. And I do like that it’s warming up it makes a real difference.

Mostafa Hosseini  00:58

It does it does the snow is guys like we literally had about a meter of snow on our on our driveway on the on the banks there. By shoveling the snow. There was a lot of snow for this time. And we don’t typically get this time. This much snow in November. No

Leah Fink  01:15

warm it was October and then winter hit very, very suddenly and fiercely. Absolutely

Mostafa Hosseini  01:21

like Yeah, we were surprised. Anyway, let me do the proper introduction for Leon we’re gonna dive into a an interesting conversation about increasing your ROI or or return on relationship. Leah was fortunate to start her personal development journey as a teenager and became inspired to help others on their journeys. After working in addictions and mental health, she realized how essential it is for people to do this work proactively and how critical relationships are to our health.

Leah’s greatest motivation was helping to people to not choose suicide, she knows that he was feeling connected and inspired at positive and positive self view that made all the difference. The fnq is now the owner of all thrive where she gives people this skill to have amazing personal and professional relationships. Welcome again.

Leah Fink  02:23

Thank you, I’m glad to be here.

Mostafa Hosseini  02:25

And so we’re talking about increasing your ROI or or your return on relationships today. Let’s start with your story. Leah, what is your story?

Leah Fink  02:37

Yeah, well, thank you for the lovely introduction. And that does touch on parts of it, of course. But helping people figure out all those parts of life that are the soft skills that we maybe don’t talk about has been my passion. Since I was a teenager, I was super fortunate to get to do a lot of that work myself. And I saw right from the beginning, the difference it made in my life, if you’ve done any personal development work, you come back and you go, why is everyone doing things the other way, there’s so much better. It’s a it’s an amazing feeling.

And I really want to support other people that way. And one of the places that my path led me with that was one of my degrees is in social work. And I was really trying to understand people and how they work and more about mental health, because that’s language that was becoming more acceptable, and that people were finally understanding more. And so then I did, I worked in addictions and mental health for quite a while with a wilderness based youth program. And addictions are an amazing microcosm, let’s say of how human behavior works, both in healthy ways and in not so healthy ways. And not just drug addiction. But we all have habits that don’t serve us.

And we’re aware of that we all have challenges in relationship, we all have some confusion sometimes, but what direction we should go. And that was really what we focused on this program and didn’t talk as much about, you know, substance abuse, we talked a lot about, who do you want to reconnect with? How are you going to do that? What what’s important to you, and how do you want to move forward. And it was absolutely tragic to me that a lot of these youth, you know, some of them had been living on the streets, some of them had been dealing drugs. Some of them had court records, you know, assault charges, whatever it was.

And it was only then that they were getting these skills that were essentially like really basic ways of connecting with yourself and others. And through that whole process as well. I was recognizing relationships as this core piece, every problem, every solution seemed to come in some part from this relational piece. And so that was what kind of solidified it in me and I went well, I want to keep doing this work. I want to help people with their relationships, and we need to do it way more proactively. Alright, our society, you know, you’re having some problems.

You know, until you have the problems you’re getting like a pat on the head like good job estafa you’re doing fine. And then suddenly you start having challenges. Isn’t it’s only when usually we get to a pretty low point that suddenly, you know, you’re using your benefits to see a psychologist or you’re in an addiction program or you’re going through a divorce. And why aren’t we addressing those things earlier on. So that’s, that’s really become my passion. And that’s why I started my business was to help people to help businesses find more success by leveling up their relationship skills.

Mostafa Hosseini  05:26

Interesting. Interesting. So it’s about relationships for business people.

Leah Fink  05:33

It’s about relationships for everyone. So some of the patterns that you have, for example, you know, I know you network, when you network, you’re going to use certain communication skills, you’re going to assume certain things about other people, you’re maybe going to try to find feedback from other people in those conversations. Those are actually the same skills you use when you’re back at home with your family, when you’re talking to your friends.

 And often they come from like a really unconscious place, right? Like you saw your parents growing up and what they did, how they communicated. And you just assume that’s the way things happen. And I see this so often, I hear it from so many people have, I thought everything was good, until I thought my communication skills were really good until my wife divorced me. I thought, you know, my networking skills were really good. But I realized no one’s actually following up or giving me referrals.

So it’s those pieces that we’re, we’re so unconscious about them, because everyone has relationships, you’ve had relationships, since you were, you know, a baby. And how do you become more aware and more skillful in them that you’re actually sounds weird to say, but like, get what you want out of them that everyone’s needs are met. And it’s a really healthy thing that’s moving you forward and the way you want to go.

Mostafa Hosseini  06:54

So what do you do with these days? And who do you serve? Yeah,

Leah Fink  06:57

so with my company all thrive. Right now I’m focusing on serving businesses, like I said, find success by leveling up their relationship skills. So I work with a lot of entrepreneurs, and I kept hearing a lot of the same problems and the problems, you know, you won’t surprise you that they were a lot in relationship, right.

So I’m networking a lot. It’s not getting me the results I want. You know, when I meet clients, I feel uncomfortable building those relationships quickly, or getting that quick report. When I go through my sales process, I’m not very confident in it, or it’s hard to do that sales piece. If I have objections, I don’t want to feel salesy. So I back off and don’t get sales.

You know, I don’t know if I’m serving my clients in the way that they need. I don’t know how to continue relationships with clients, once they’ve used me for my product or service once and all of those and actually the biggest, a really challenging one for a lot of entrepreneurs, as well as I don’t have community. Right, I don’t have other entrepreneurs who understand this weird journey that we’re all on a bit different than an employee. And just all of those pieces together, make it really hard to be successful as an entrepreneur.

Because we rely so heavily on relationship, I need to be able to talk with you and have the shared sense of camaraderie pretty quickly, in a lot of cases, for you to know like and trust me, because if you don’t know, like, me, how do we succeed?

Mostafa Hosseini  08:25

Yeah, the entrepreneurial journey is extremely difficult compared to other types of journeys. I know in Canada, back in the day, the number was 21 out of five people is dealing with mental issues and mental health of some sort. and I are heard a read somewhere that that that number with entrepreneurs is between 60 to 70%. With mental issues and mental health, like this morning, I’ll give you a personal example. Yeah, this morning, I got up. I was feeling really good. Did my meditation feeling great. All of a sudden, I think it was around 11. I was sad. And I didn’t know why. And I’m just doing my work doing my things. And you know, a bunch of things happening. All of a sudden, I’m like, Oh, I don’t feel like working anymore. And so it’s a roller coaster. And you’re right. It’s like it’s really tough.

Leah Fink  09:26

Yeah. Oh, I mean, 1,000,000%. I love that you brought up that stat because it is one I talk about a lot. I’ve heard even up to 74%, which is just a crazy number. But you think of all of these pieces that pile up for entrepreneurs, right? So you have the stress of taking on this whole thing often by yourself. A lot of entrepreneurs start as solopreneurs. So you’ve got all these extra responsibilities, especially if you’re a solopreneur.

You’ve probably don’t have the same kind of community you did when you were an employee. People who aren’t entrepreneurs, like I said, Sometimes it can be hard for them to understand the journey. And so getting that empathy and connection and relationship and you’re probably taking less time because you’re so focused on your work, you might have less time in your personal relationships. And all of those pieces do really accumulate.

And this is where that proactive piece to me really comes in. Because we, if we let these things linger, like if you’re having a sad day today, and you start having a sad day, tomorrow, and the sad day after that, and you’re not doing anything about it, to kind of work those mental wellness muscles in where you would have physical muscle, then it’s really easy to just keep continuing and it reinforces itself. And suddenly you do end up in this place of stress, depression, anxiety, people, I think, tend to think of them as illnesses, sometimes that are a bit more hereditary, and it’s only from that place, but they come from, you know, this, this lack of well being in your whole life and your body and your relationships.

So thank you for mentioning, that’s a huge important part to me. For

Mostafa Hosseini  11:03

sure, for sure. Yeah, it’s tough. With all the decisions and all the responsibilities and all the there’s like, some people call it CEOs as chief everything officers, and like entrepreneurs, a lot of us are like chief and everything officers, and especially, I think men do a really worse than this part, like women are used to connecting to each other, talking to each other. And they usually don’t have a lot of blockages with getting hell help or reaching out to help and men are so stubborn, and they’re like, Oh, I’m gonna try to figure this out on my own. And although I’m dying, and I can’t breathe, but I’m still gonna try to rough it out and everything on my own. And so it’s interesting. When there’s

Leah Fink  11:56

a firm like, there, there is also a societal piece of how we’re trained, right? Like I, I do believe men are trained a bit by our culture, Western culture, that they should be tough, and they should stick it out. And yeah, I really encourage any men who are listening, that you don’t have to be that way that there’s huge strength and support you can find from people and that’s not being weak. It’s just seeking success. It’s winning. A lot of men are competitive, that’s winning is when you have a really good team around you. And yeah, so it’s a great point.

Mostafa Hosseini  12:29

I’m saying, gang, if you’re watching, you’re listening. And if you have any questions about relationships, for LEA, put them in a comment, and we’ll do our best to cover them. And if you want to share anything about your experience. And we’ll, we’ll definitely go over it. So here’s a comment. I’m trying to reach out to other business owners on social I’m finally able to connect, but I’m not sure how to keep conversations going. That’s a great question is

Leah Fink  12:59

a great question. So I’m assuming I can share my thoughts here. So my first question, and you might not have the chance to answer this while we’re talking. But what is your agenda? What would the ideal outcome of that conversation be? Are you try to meet with other business owners on Facebook? So you can book a networking or discovery call with them? Are you trying to create, so like maybe JV partnerships?

Are you trying to make collaborative projects with them? I think that piece is a real piece of clarity to start. A lot of people I mean, social media is such an interesting space for relationship. Because it can be very connecting in some ways, like like this show, there’s a space for us to be vulnerable in front of people on social media. You talked a little bit about your challenges. I’m talking about my challenges as an entrepreneur and some of the pieces that I’ve struggled with in relationship. And that could be a way that people want to reach out.

The cold reach out on social media is very challenging, because you might not have had that opportunity to develop any vulnerability, which people usually connect with. Depending on how you reach out, I hope you’re not reaching out in the way of the LinkedIn ads that we get from people saying, I want to connect because I run an SEO company and you need SEO. And they just kind of batter you with information. Because once again, that’s not creating that connection. And I see that you’ve responded, learn more about their business by this or by that I want to learn about their businesses and their challenges. Great.

So that is a great mindset to start out with is it sounds like you’re really questioning and this is the most powerful thing is, you know, acknowledge what they’re saying ask a question. This is across the board. This is for sales. This is for when you meet people, what did they say? Great, comment on that and then ask them what’s happening. Now what you might find with business owners again on social media because As social media is it’s a whole separate expense is because they don’t have that connection to you, they might not want to answer right away. Right, they might go, Sue is probably the most likely one, which I suspect you’re getting a lot of, maybe they’ll answer once or in short sentences, I have to say my strategy personally is trying to create a stronger connection.

So you can do that a couple of ways. If you do want to just go through messaging reach out, there’s ways you can make little videos, and that send them as a message, those often get much better interactions, like you’re seeing us on the screen right now, there’s a face, there’s a voice, so much of our language comes through our voice and our tone and our body language. So that’s one way. The other one I would suggest is if they’re businesses, and you’re reaching out, they should have a number, they should have an email.

 And I’ve had way more success through reaching out through those. And just sending them maybe a quick message, a quick email saying, Hey, we were chatting on LinkedIn, I was really curious about this. Call them I know, people don’t call as much but having to pick up that phone. If you’re serious about making this relationship, I would suggest that investment piece that you take that little bit of extra time. And this is the r versus ROI part, right is everyone thinks of you invest your return on investment. It’s when you want a relationship with these people on Facebook or on LinkedIn, what have you invested? Why would they listen to you?

What have you invested that they’re saying, oh, there was value for me. So I want to reach back out to this person to sway humans work, right? We get value from people and we feel more inclined to want to help them to answer their questions.

Mostafa Hosseini  16:40

Absolutely one of the things that one of my friends actually taught me and it works pretty well as once you start. Once you get once you get past the initial, you know, pleasantries and and saying hi, blah, blah, blah, well, I think is that he does is he invites them to a complimentary live training on Zoom, where they get to see each other he teaches a piece and he they connect with their community.

Right, that’s a great way for the prospect to see this person is get a hold of each other see to training, maybe they get to ask, once the new new person comes into this training, they could ask about their challenges, problems, frustrations and issues or whatnot, and then take it from there.

Leah Fink  17:22

Totally one, that’s again, it’s a piece that is a gift, it’s an offering that support someone so they’re more likely to buy in, it gets you that in person, through the screen contact, at least have a live interaction. And, you know, just think about that, too. There are other ways you can offer that gift. Sometimes people don’t want to immediately talk about their challenges. Because if you just ask someone up front like, hey, Mustapha, what are the problems with your business?

 I don’t think you know, this person’s asking that. But it can be a little bit of a defense mechanism piece. Whereas also you can just offer like, when I connect with new people on LinkedIn, my first question is like, how can I serve your business? Tell me the top thing I could do right now? Can I reach your post? You can offer a couple things. Can I read your posts for you? Can I comment on something? All of those pieces, once again, it’s giving of that value? So they have a sense of I’m willing to give you the time to answer this question. Because that’s their precious time isn’t entrepreneur

Mostafa Hosseini  18:20

love it? So the question was, how can I serve your business?

Leah Fink  18:23

I use? Yeah, how can I serve your business? You know, thanks for connecting with me on LinkedIn. Was there a reason you connected? How can I help you? It’s, it’s really all it is, is saying like,

Mostafa Hosseini  18:33

Oh, nice, nice. So let’s go back to enter relationships. How did you end up in relationships out of all the stuff that you experienced, like, was there like a, an event or something that happened where you realize that you need to focus on relationships?

Leah Fink  18:57

It is a two part like one, like I said, when I was in working in addictions, that right away, you do notice it everywhere, right? The broken relationships, how strong relationships are as a mental health factor and a resilience factor. And then personally, just to be honest, like I was that geeky awkward kid, didn’t have a ton of relationships. But the ones I had, I thought were really strong. And as I grew up, I really started to see the places where I could be improving them, right?

I lost some relationships in very painful ways, right, lost a really good friend, because of misunderstandings that we could have gotten past that I had these skills now. And then, if that kind of culminated in something, though, you know, like you mentioned in my bio, I had a couple of people who I was able to help through suicidal ideation, and really recognizing that if those relationships if their relationship with Me hadn’t existed in that moment, what would have happened?

To be quite honest, like we you know, we had a family friend lost to suicide when I was quite young, I got to see the impact, you know, through my family through other friends through everyone. And to have had the opposite happen and look back at it and go, I am so grateful that in that moment, I had done something right that this person felt safe, was huge. And of course, you can’t just say, say this one thing perfectly, and everyone will always trust you and like you relationships, take this work. And that’s where I wanted to help people.

Because so so much of the time, and this is the most heart wrenching thing to me, is I talk to people and they’re trying so hard. Right people in couples who are just, you know, they’re putting their whole heart into the other person is not reciprocating or not feeling the same. They both both might care, but they’re not noticing it. You know, entrepreneurs as I started working with that audience, who were trying so hard, like maybe putting so much time into networking, or putting so much time into these consultation calls with clients and not getting anything back, and it hurts because that is a reach out, right?

That’s me reaching out to you in a relational way saying, I want to help you want to build this. And so yeah, so relationships to me, they’re they are just the core of everything. I do truly believe that’s my purpose is helping people know that they’re cared for. And I do that by giving people the skills to care for themselves and others.

Mostafa Hosseini  21:29

Do you also focus or put any emphasis on a person’s relationship with themselves? versus their relationship with others? Yes.

Leah Fink  21:40

100%? I would say in fact, that’s, that’s where the journey starts with all of this. So for example, have you done any personality typology? Like, Myers Briggs or Enneagram?

Mostafa Hosseini  21:53

Yes,

Leah Fink  21:54

you’ve done this great like disc, I use true colors. It’s a great one nice and fun, easy to remember, people use it. The first part of that is you go through and anyone who’s done one of these, you go through a bunch of questions, probably or a bunch of statements or a bunch of words. And you say, this is the most like me, this is less like me, right?

Pretty simple. And from that, you usually get a, a thing, you’re maybe you’re a D, maybe you’re a blue, maybe you’re an AI N TF, right. And from that, then you That’s that first part of self learning that is relationship with self, oh, I didn’t realize that I’m more introverted. I didn’t realize that this is this way. The second part of that, so that’s the beginning of everything, right. I do work with leadership, for example, when the first things you have to do in leadership is recognize, well, what’s my experience of power of other leaders and other people who have helped me?

Oh, how does that impact other people? How does that impact my leadership? So that’s part one, but then the part two is, okay, I’ve learned about it in this isolation of my own experience. Now, how do I apply it to helping how I interact with other people. So, for example, so one of my pieces, so I like I said, I love true colors as a personality typology. When I first did it for myself, I learned that my strongest personality type was the logical analytical.

And one of the reasons it was my strongest type is because that’s how I like to communicate. So I’m more likely to go from a place of facts and knowledge and information, I say, I think a lot. And my first realization to that, because my second color type type was really cool. And I went, Oh, my God, this makes so much sense. I’m always reaching out to people. And this is one of the reasons maybe that I’m not feeling the connection that I’m hoping to feel, because I’m not talking in a way that they feel connected.

So the first part is, I realize I’m this way, the second part is, how does that interact with other people with their way of being with how I help people with how I communicate all of those pieces? And so the you’re totally right, the foundational is, what’s my relationship with me? How do I accept that? How do I lessen that judgment? And then, what does that mean to other people?

Mostafa Hosseini  24:09

Yeah, because I’ve done some work in this area on myself on myself and with myself. And I think my relationship with my with myself kind of determines my relationship with others. If I’m not good to myself, I’m probably not going to be good to others, and vice versa. And so it’s a complicated world. It’s the relationship world is, there’s a lot into it. Yeah. Well,

Leah Fink  24:37

it’s an interesting piece, because one of the things that often happens, right is the classic Yes, you can’t love others until you love yourself. Mm hmm. And we are also told as a society and especially as women in this case, is that we’re supposed to serve others first, right? Or women are supposed to be the caregivers and take care of others and a lot People hide their pain, their challenges with themselves behind helping others. Because it is often easier and very fulfilling to say, Okay, well, I don’t feel good about myself. But if I help this person, I can feel good, right?

Yeah, in social work, I think they call it the wounded healer or something, right, I’m trying to help others because I’m feeling this pain. And it does work to some extent, in a fake it till you make it, you are still doing something good, which probably feeds you makes you feel good. And the flip side of that, which I often get to, is talking about what that actually means for your self care and how you take care of yourself. Because the reality is, I know self care is like a really hot buzzword and everyone goes, Yeah, I need to do yoga and take walks,

I get it, I’m going to ride have my work life balance, but the part of self care is it actually very quickly can become an ethical issue. So you are this, you know, person who’s maybe in a bit of pain, not accepting themselves, you want to help others. And you’re in so much pain and stress, that you’re not calm. You’re not present in the same way that you want to be the classic like parent that super tired and stressed out and then yells at their kid, they don’t want to yell at their kid, what they what they were was so much in this place of not being able to care for themselves that I would argue it is this unethical expression of the way that they’re trying to help.

So instead of saying, hey, let’s figure that out together, they screamed at their kid. And how often might you be serving clients in a way that you think is really helpful? And they can just tell you are stressed, you’re worried about something? Maybe you’re snapping at them? Maybe you’re not using helpful language for them? Right? How does that all work? So it’s a great point you’re making?

Mostafa Hosseini  26:55

How do I know? Or how do people know if they need to work on their relationships if they need improvements? And there’s like, you brought up some examples earlier, like about business people? Like if you’re not getting referrals, if you’re not getting introduction and whatnot? How do I know my relationship skills or my communication skills when it comes to relationships? Suck? And I’m not good at it or

Leah Fink  27:25

think could use some improvement? Yeah,

Mostafa Hosseini  27:27

right. What are maybe some signs here that we should be looking for?

Leah Fink  27:32

Well, first of all, I think it’s funny that you asked that question, because I’m literally I’ve had multiple people ask it. So I’m in the process of making a quiz that helps people get a bit of a sense of what those indicators are. So people, you know, reach out, if you want to try that out. It’s just in its final publishing process here. And I would say there’s, there’s a couple different cues you can watch for the first one is in your entrepreneurial journey, it really is like, look at your sales, look at what’s working and what’s not.

So, for example, if you’re reaching out a lot on social media, let’s say you’re spending two hours a day doing it, because that’s the strategy you’re using. And you find that no one’s reaching back out to you or that you’re not continuing those relationships. That to me would be an indicator. Oh, okay. Something something’s something’s not up. I want to adjust something and how I’m approaching these people. We had some ideas today.

At the same time that you’re doing that I suspect you’re doing something else that maybe is connecting you more, maybe you’re doing some in person networking, maybe you have great referrals from everyone, like everyone that worked with you loved you. And maybe you’re just not asking them those questions of Well, who else? Do you know, what’s could I help? How else could I help them? And so it’s more about, I would say, like, start looking and doing that tracking?

Of Where have I been putting my energy? And where’s it coming back to me, right, that return on relationship. Also, and this is one of the practices that I often go a lot into with people on on every level, it’s huge is, as a society, we’re not great with feedback. And feedback being I mean, most people are pretty good at pumping each other up and like, Oh, you’re doing great. But we’re not good at talking very specifically about what’s working, what’s not working, how could we make it better? And so if you have opportunities, if you have clients, you’ve already worked with that you’re like, Everything felt easy with this person. Why was Why was this so good?

Or clients that you’re challenged with? actually taking a moment to say, Hey, I’ve just noticed, you know, we we’ve had this really great relationship, you’ve seemed really served by my work. I’m just wondering, what’s what’s the thing that I’m doing that’s really supporting you? What’s thing that’s helping you most? Okay, great is Is there anything I could do to add value to our time together? It’s that easy, but trying and trying to keep neutral language being ready obviously, because getting feedback can be a little pinchy a little painful.

So you know, being be ready for that, but we don’t ask. Like people will do me Maybe a feedback form at the end of a workshop, or you know, a situation and someone will say, yep, things are better. Well, what does that mean? I mean, I do this with my husband, actually, every month, we have feedback. You know, what’s the thing you love most this last month?

What’s one thing I could do to help improve our relationship? Be amazed? I, I always think yeah, oh, no, I know what he’s gonna say. Almost never. Because I’m not in his head. He’s not in my head. It’s, it’s you have to ask these questions to know what’s working and what’s not.

Mostafa Hosseini  30:31

Love it. So some of those were some some some great, great feedback for people if you’re watching or listening. And again, gang, if you have questions about relationships, put them in a comment and we’ll do our best to cover it. Now what happens when relationships are just okay. And

Leah Fink  30:49

yeah, so most relationships, I would say in the world kind of fall in that. Okay, range. One thing to remember is okay, usually ends up bad relationships, I would say are usually under some sort of entropy, right? So that they’re slowly, always losing a little bit of positivity energy. So you think of, maybe a friendship you have starts out great, you spend a lot of time together, time goes on, you kind of assume this person solid, maybe you see each other less, maybe you start saying less like positive things to them. Suddenly, it kind of fades out.

That’s, that’s at least a reasonably healthy way. Even if you’ve lost the relationship. You think of a marriage? You know, you start out there’s the honeymoon phase. Oh, you’re just the best, I love you. Oh, thank you for doing that. Right. And lots of positive affirmation, you’re putting a lot of energy in, suddenly 10 years down the road, maybe there’s kids, you’re busy, you’re tired, you know this person too well, and you’re not putting in those positive pieces. Suddenly, the relationship now goes to Okay. And where is it heading to?

Probably heading to bad unless you change something. It’s the same with all your business relationships. Right? You start out you meet a new client, you’re doing really well for them. You serve them, they’re, they’re so happy. Oh, my God, they give you this rave review. What are you doing to follow up with them? Do you have a really good system where they still feel connected to you? Maybe, maybe not, maybe they’re on a mailing list, maybe they never hear from you again. Those are very different things.

And suddenly, this person who could have been maybe a great referral, giving you more testimonials, come back for more of your programs, right? That’s often uncapitalized for a lot of entrepreneurs. Now, this person’s kind of broken away from you. And so that’s, that’s really my work is taking relationships that are okay, and recognizing that they can be better, we don’t want to stay tuned. Oh, Kailyn. We want to take the effort challenging though. It might be pinchy though it might be, you know, the effort that it takes and recognize that that keeps sustained relationships and keeps healthy relationships.

And if they’re not working, if that’s still happening, then please. I mean, obviously, I would love it if you come work with me. But anyone seek someone that can support you in that if you’re finding that they’re all going to that bad place.

Mostafa Hosseini  33:09

100% Well, as a guy who runs a business specializing in follow ups, I can attest to how important follow ups are in keeping and maintaining a relationship. Especially when it comes to business. Like literally yesterday, I called the person to follow up on a lead magnet that they download. It turns out to be a university professor from Florida. had a chat with her, Hey, I’m calling to see what’s going on our system shows that you downloaded this.

I am actually the guy who created it. And she’s like, Oh my God. I’m like I’m calling see if you have any questions. Do you have a Can I help you? She’s like, Oh, I downloaded this to to show this to my students in my class, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah. And then I’m like, Would you like me to run a session for your class, she’s like, that will be great. So in a week or two, I’m gonna do a lecture for her class in front of a bunch of doctors that are graduating.

And then I asked, I’m just following your, your, your thoughts on on asking for introductions and stuff? And I said, Do you know anyone else that might be interested in a lecture or in in a presentation like this? She goes, I actually know the person that runs the association in the state of Florida. I’m like, Would you be open to an introduction?

She’s like, Yeah, I’d be happy to. And that was just a simple 10 minute conversation. And now we have a relationship. Now I’m going to follow up. So the follow up on on relationships is huge. And that’s pretty much why I got into that business. Well,

Leah Fink  34:51

this was one of the reasons I mean, I had you on my show. And I love that you talked about this because I do see your business as very relational. And the pieces that you do that are so Good is, yeah, you’re taking that from a text conversation right there on your email list to calling them. Okay, so now you have a voice, now you have that interest, you gave them something of value said I will come in and do a session for your students.

And then you ask the question, which is a big piece to it’s scary to ask right here, you might hear a no. Yes, the question, do you know anyone else? And you’ve given her so much already that she was so excited to do that? And that, wow, just a perfect example.

Mostafa Hosseini  35:29

How to present, though I was so thrilled. If you’re watching or listening, right, you made a bunch of other calls, where it wasn’t no answer a bunch of them. Like, I’m not interested. Why are you calling me blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I’m like, It’s okay. I’m just going to keep calling until I talk to the right person. And now I’m probably going to get in front of a whole bunch of people that could be ideal clients and customers, and you never know what happens.

Totally. Ah, let’s talk about dealing with tough people and tough clients. When it comes to relationships. And earlier, you you’re Brett, you talked about about an example where you could have probably handled the situation better, but because you didn’t do it, your friend or the friendship is gone. So let’s talk about tough relationships. Clients are people. How do we connect or deal with tough people?

Leah Fink  36:32

Yeah, so just a small question. One of what so so you have a couple of different ways. And it depends on when you’re approaching this. So the first thing you can do to have more skill or skillfulness. And how you deal with tough people, is do the work ahead of time. Right? Take some classes with me with someone else, understand how people might have different perspectives than you. That’s often the biggest conflict, right?

Is this person saying this thing, this person saying this thing, they actually mean the same thing, but they’re just not there’s something lost in communication. So pre developing those skills, that when you see something happening in someone else, you can recognize, oh, maybe they’re reacting to this, maybe it’s just the way I said it, all of those pieces. That’s the ideal way. That’s what I encourage everyone to do. When you’re in a situation with someone, and it’s tough, you kind of have two options.

The first, the first thing you want to do is you want to ask yourself, Is this a relationship I’m invested, invested in, I want it to continue, I want to stay healthy, I want to be healthier. There might be the case where you say no. So let’s say you are doing a discovery call with a client, and you start talking to them, and they start going off on something and you’re going well, this is a tough client. You know, even even if you need the money, I would honestly very much encourage people, if they’re getting a sense that there’s not going to be that fit to say, hey, look, I really appreciate our time together, I actually don’t think I’m the best person to serve you.

You know what I have this other guy who does XYZ similar to me, would you like me to introduce you because I think they might be a better match. Great, you can close relationship, that’s not someone you have invested time in, you want to invest more time in, you can literally say, Please don’t ghost ghosting is, it’s it’s easy. It’s you know, mentally easy to just let people go. But please do take the time to close those relationships. And then the other thing you have to do though, is if it is a tough relationship, and you’re in it, and you’re committed, this is the fight with your spouse, this is the client that you’re working with and want to keep this is whatever it looks like if you’re in a in a if you’re an employee, right?

And you’re struggling with your boss or boss struggling with your employee, those are relationships you want to keep your invested in. So how are you investing and once again, this actually comes back to feedback a lot of the time, you can acknowledge that something is not working. This is a weird thing. A lot of people feel like they need permission to say, hey, something’s up. Right. Again, that awkward conversation might be a little bit challenging. But Mustapha, look, the last three times we’ve talked, I’ve noticed you hung up the call pretty quick.

There seems to be something going on. Can you tell me about it? That can be it. Prepare yourself again, make sure you’re calm and and ready to see receive what’s going to happen. But the likelihood is it’s not as bad as you think. And the thing is, even if it is as bad as you think you probably still were thinking about it more than it mattered or really is irrelevant. Right? So because I know for example, when I think something’s wrong in a relationship, you know, you feel that tension. And you’re kind of aware like, oh, they said it was fine, but I don’t know. Every time I see them, they get mad at me now. They’re the tough client. You know, something’s wrong. We got those instincts. Right. I’m sitting there at home going What the heck has happened?

What did I say that they didn’t Like, Oh, they probably hate me No, oh, they’re never going to almost never is it that it’s usually Oh, I really wanted this instead, I would have appreciate this, I just need to get something off my chest and then I’ll feel better. Great, you have that opportunity. And that’s dealing with a tough client is understanding a tough point asking them those questions and reconnecting.

Mostafa Hosseini  40:20

Yeah, I think a lot of this goes back to being honest with yourself and with others. As to like, dealing with a tough customer. I know that if I’m, even if I need the money from if I’m not being honest with myself, I will probably take that tough customer to then know it’s going to be a headache customer. And then later on, it’s going to be bad relationship. And I know I did that, because I wasn’t being honest with myself and with them.

And I think that the honestly piece always works works better. Like, I’ll give you a personal example, the other day. I was talking to my wife, and there was something I wasn’t happy about. And then I was thinking about it for like a day and a half. What am I going to say? What am I not going to say? And then I called her I’m like, Hey, I think this was not right. And she’s like, Oh, I had no idea. And it was fixed in like 15 seconds. And I thought about it for two frickin days. And then I think that honestly, kind of helps quite a bit. Yeah, look, so the two questions were the first question was, Is this a relationship, I want a relationship I want to be invested in.

And what I’m going to add to that gang is if you watch or see any clues in the beginning of a relationship that you’re not okay with. They’re going to continue most likely an example as a few months ago, I was talking to a prospect. And I was asking questions, and he goes, Don’t do your sales crap on me. And then I’m like, we need to end this conversation real fast. Because if it starts like this, it’s probably going to continue like this.

And then the other thing you mentioned that was really good was acknowledge if something’s not working. So at least can we do a Mustapha exposing coached session section or right now? Sure. This is what we do I get some live coaching on my on my own show. Oh, great. So I am in a friendship where I think we’re not serving each other. Enough anymore. And I’ve been thinking about ending this relationship. But it’s that niceness. And that it’s like stopping me.

You know, am I what am I going to tell this guy? How am I going to end this? Because I think it’s not serving. So what do you think is the best way to reach out to the other person? And the thing is, I don’t want to hurt him. And I still want to be friends. But I don’t want to stop working on a project per se. Okay, you know what I mean? Yeah. So that’s the dilemma that I am dealing with. Yeah.

Leah Fink  43:17

Oh, that’s a great question. I love that you do this? What a great opportunity for you on your own show to to get that. I mean, I guess my question is, what vibes are you getting? or feedback or, you know, input are you getting that’s making you think it’s not a good match?

Mostafa Hosseini  43:35

So your your example, and you said, they hang up the phone real quick? That’s exactly what we’re getting? And I feel like we’re not in the same place, mentally business wise. And the rest of it.

Leah Fink  43:49

Yeah. So there are there are indicators to you right now that things aren’t good. And they’re not just from you. It’s not that every time you’re the one hanging up the phone, you’re this guy’s like, so happy to see you every time and you’re going like, Man, I don’t like him. It sounds like there’s some equal pieces you’re seeing from him as well. Yes.

Yes. I love that you use the word honesty earlier, because it’s, this is not gonna sound fun for anyone. It’s not probably encouraging people to work with me. But you know, this is it’s hard work. Right? If there was a magic wand, I could wave and everyone’s relationships would be perfect and happy and easy, then I would definitely be out of a job. It takes this first piece that you’ve done, which is being honest with yourself, this isn’t working for me. I don’t want to do this anymore.

 Then the second piece is, if you do want, it sounds like you don’t want to invest in terms of this project. But you do still want to stay invested in the relationship you want there to be some connection and care because you like this person you care about. Yeah, I

Mostafa Hosseini  44:46

don’t want to destroy the relationship. I just want a friendship. You want to be friends, but I would just want to be nicely saying, let’s stop doing this and continue our friendship.

Leah Fink  44:55

Yeah. So the piece I would say in that that’s the Hard work is because now you have to be the one starting this conversation it sounds like is, I would say curiosity is usually a great way to approach these things. So I would ask him, for example, like in the last month, what have been some of the top interactions we’ve had? Or some of the top results you think we’ve had from our partnership? I don’t know the situation perfectly.

But if you’re asking him the positive questions, and he says, Oh, ya know, we’ve made so much money together, and the project seems to be going smoothly. Okay, what are some of the challenges you’ve had in this partnership for the last little while? Oh, and it might take a little while, you might have to kind of sit in that bit of silence as things happen. Generally, people will bring up at least something. And if it’s something that you’ve noticed, as well, you can validate. You know what I’ve, I’ve noticed that too, it really does seem like we’ve been clashing a lot. How much?

How much time? Have you been putting in how much time we’ve been putting in this project together? 20 hours a week. Okay, so we put in 20 hours a week, and we’re clashing a lot. I don’t know about you. But what I’m hearing is, this is not always a great situation for you. And I’ve got to be honest, it’s not always great for me, would you say that’s fair, and you just keep, you can keep putting pieces of your experience in but you’re really asking you about their experience. You’re validating their experience. And you’re kind of sitting in this empathy together. Right? Because Because like I said, it’s very rare, that one person doesn’t at least have a sense that something’s happening, right?

Like, if you’re having a bad experience with him, there’s a good likelihood he’s not having the best experience with you. And just that curiosity, keep keep approaching with everything. Keep asking questions, you will get to a point where you kind of have figured out why he’s not enjoying it, why you’re not enjoying it, you’ve come to a consensus of and you can keep affirming, dude, I love you as a friend. Like, I don’t get why this isn’t working. But it really sucks because I feel like I’m losing our friendship. Yeah.

Mostafa Hosseini  46:58

Like, I love I love going back to the honesty piece. And one thing and asking her questions like, What are the how do you think? How is that relationship? What do you think we’re achieving here? What do you think are some of the challenges here? And one thing I learned from Tomas the FBI negotiator, yeah. Is like he calls it got what does he call it?

I’m gonna call it calling it out before you kind of start so you, I would start with I’m gonna sound like an asshole. Right? And then when you say, when I’m gonna say you’re not gonna like, and then once I laid out, honestly, they’re gonna be like, Oh, thank you for putting that out. That’s just going to defuse all that negative energy. So so so this is this is this is great.

Leah Fink  47:52

Interesting, you say that it’s, that is actually a type of boundary. And we’re not very good with this as as Ghana kind of society. But as much as you can ever pre-state boundaries. It’s so helpful for people like often we get mad at people when they, you know, don’t honor our boundaries, but they don’t even know what they were.

So we’re just mad at them for something they didn’t know about. But saying, this is going to be this kind of conversation or hey, you know, are you okay? If we do a little bit of feedback sharing right now, or, you know, I need to talk to you about something important. Can I share how I feel? Those are actually all boundaries. They’re saying, hey, this has a specific, you know, agenda to it. I use the word agenda a lot, because I think a lot of people see it as really negative.

Right? I have an agenda that I’m gonna get this out of this. But we all do an absolutely every conversation. And like you said, sometimes calling it out and saying, like, Hey, man, my plan for this conversation is it’s gonna suck, and I’m going to be an asshole. Great, you’ve stayed the boundary, you have an agenda, and they’re aware of it. Right? It’s almost like stating an intention ahead of time, instead of just assuming everyone’s going to be in your brain the whole time I do that.

This I know, I still do this. But as much as we can keep practicing it. It’s such a useful skill.

Mostafa Hosseini  49:05

You know, I’ve been I’ve been hurt for being honest. And and I think these two pieces one as calling it out, like I’m going to be honest, and you’re probably gonna hate me, or you’re going to think I’m a bad person. But would you be and then their thing, the next piece for me would be permission, ask him for permission.

Like you said, Ask him those questions and getting permission to share feedback, which will defuse it because because I’m out of place of love. I’ve been in places where I tried to share honest feedback and I got punched and I got in a push back and I got called an asshole for being honest and sharing constructive feedback or what I thought it was. But that would also hurt the relationship. Speaking of relationships, yeah.

Leah Fink  49:57

I mean, I wish I could go i I spent hours. I teach feedback. It’s it’s not. I mean, as much as I can talk about it here isn’t just try it out it is a much more complicated skill to do really? Like positively and skillfully and that it gets you the results you want. But yes, ask for consent, let people know it’s coming. Ask, right. Like, it does make a difference to know like, oh, what just happened? Someone just, you know, gave me this thing I wasn’t ready for, it’s often not pleasant. And there was another piece I really wanted to touch on.

But like you said, this is this is a piece of like what you said that truth focus, and sometimes it does break relationships. Yeah, I, it is a delicate dance. So this is where you have to kind of get a sense of the person that you know, because some people are, they’re not at this point. I hate to say it, some people are very deep in their own story, their own victimhood, their own trauma, whatever it is. So part of this do I want to invest in this relationship? Is is this person ready to take this investment? Even if I do it, start it very gentle and keep working my way in there.

But what often happens is we put everyone under that umbrella because we’ve had that one bad experience with that person that took it horribly and then got mad at us and, and all that. And it’s it’s like a spectrum. On continuum. If you think of a continuum of like truth, focus to Harmony focused, when you’re going into a situation, are you going to tell the hard truth are you going to focus on you know, just keeping things nice, so no one gets upset.

People often base all of their things that go into this, like harmony, focus side, and they just do anything to pretend like things are good. Like, maybe you’re doing a little with your friend right now. Like I’ve done plenty of relationships, too. We all do. And it’s knowing like, is this a relationship one where I can go to focus and I want to go truth focused? Is that relationship where I’m gonna stay in this harmony side, because if I rock the boat, things are going to be bad.

I worked a lot in offices with this, right? This is if you don’t have psychological safety in an office, everyone’s gonna be on that Harvey focus. If you don’t, you’re not gonna get any of what’s actually happening. So sure, such a big piece you brought up? Absolutely.

Mostafa Hosseini  52:12

We promised people with some tools that is going to help them build rapport and trust right away. What are what do you have in your toolbox?

Leah Fink  52:23

Once again, a very big question for a short amount of time. One of the tools that I find easiest, and this is, again, that second part of personality typology as you get your self awareness, and then you learn about other people and use that to improve your relationships. The condensed version of it is, the biggest tool or one of the strongest tools is like recognize your own patterns. And what you see is valuable, and what your strengths are, and what your joys are, and sounds very simple to say, much more complicated to do.

And then really pay attention to what other people are doing. So in every situation, if you notice, for example, like quick report for entrepreneurs, this is the down and dirty, if you notice that they are using words like think information, you know, very analytical, probably not talking a lot about like family and how you’re doing they’re getting straight to the point. reflect that, right? Maybe you’re the most lovey feely person in the world, and that’s totally fine.

But when you’re talking with that one person, your new client, your person that you’re networking with, oh, they’re using a lot of thinking words, okay, so I’m gonna reflect that I’m gonna give them the information they want, I’m gonna, I’m gonna do that. You know, other way, maybe you’re meeting with someone who’s giving you a lot they talk to you. And right from the beginning, they’re going, how are you? They really want to, they want to have that conversation. If you start going into all the details of your program, or all the information and facts, they’re going to just check out and be like, well, this person doesn’t care about me.

Right? reflect that piece back to them. You get people who are very organized and structured. So you’ll hear them talking, actually, honesty and loyalty is usually a strong term that they care about. But they’ll talk about like structures and plans. Great. Do you have a program that’s like well laid out and scheduled? They want to know what’s happening, they’re going to be there early right there. There, there was organized people and that’s how they see the world. So give them those pieces, be on time and respectful.

You know, help them understand what’s going to happen. And then you also get and this is like the big entrepreneurial energy, you get your adventurous spontaneous people and I’m sure you’ve met people who go and conversation and suddenly you’re in seven different directions and it’s super energetic and fun and you’re like what, what just happened? And same thing you don’t want to give those people all the details and facts and schedules, you want to have fun with them and go for that ride.

And if you can look at every interaction and just very quickly think to yourself, What is this person’s goal right now? Is their goal to connect with me on an emotional level and I’m so I’m getting those emotional cue words is their goal to learn so information about what I’m doing. Okay, I can connect with them on that level. And this is like an every situation across the board. My kids coming to me and they’re screaming at me. Okay, like, what is it that they actually want? What is their goal out of this conversation is screaming to get some sort of connection with me that I’m going to pay attention to them? Or that is that it is that that affection seeking or connection seeking not attention seeking, connection seeking? You know, is it that there’s something that hurts and they don’t have a better way to describe it? Often, bad behavior is just this, you know, reflection of someone not being in a great place having unmet needs.

And when we can start thinking like, why the heck would they do this even really toxic behavior? You if you want, you can dive deep dive and go, why? What is serving this person about this interaction? No one stupid no one does stuff for, you know, that they don’t think is going to work. They found some way they’ve they’ve learned through their trauma or some other manipulation or whatever, that this behavior is going to give them something. What the heck is it?

Mostafa Hosseini  56:02

Love it. Love it. Leah, could you tell us about your gift for the people that are watching or listening?

Leah Fink  56:10

Yeah. So I want to support people in their relationships. That’s, that’s kind of the whole thing. If you have questions about this, if you want to know more about the things I offer, but honestly, just if you want a little bit of help, let’s just book some time or for a free consultation, we could talk through a couple things, I can give you a couple tools right away that you can use and practice and try out and we can check in. And that’s really it. Just I would love to be there as a resource for you. Fantastic.

Mostafa Hosseini  56:39

So now get gang if you’re watching or listening, to get access to Leo’s complimentary consultation, go to meet leah.ca That’s m e, t. l e a h.ca. Meet leah.ca Get a hold of her book an appointment, have a conversation about your relationships. And I we’re out of time right now. And I’m just halfway through my questions.

So we could easily talk another hour or two about relationships because this is a favorite topic of mine. I’ve worked on it. I’ve studied it. People are behavior and the rest of it so we could probably go on forever. Would it be alright, if I asked you a couple of personal questions, please do. What says something new you have tried recently? Bigger small. Ooh.

Leah Fink  57:33

Oh my god. There’s lots of things. I’ll say I’ll stick to a business one is I’m trying to build this quiz because I was asked for and I’m, I feel like I’m pretty decent with the computer stuff. But it was still learning new systems and a new way to plug things in and trying to figure out what the most effective way is. And I find my entrepreneurial journey has been very good for like constantly having like, how am I going to deal with this thing? Oh, what’s that thing over there? So I’ll use that one. Love

Mostafa Hosseini  58:08

1. So building a quiz. Yep. All right. Give me two of your favorite books.

Leah Fink  58:15

Boo. Okay, well, Lord of the Rings is right up there. My brother’s like a super genius. And he was hard to connect to because I have not a math person. And so I couldn’t talk to him but a lot of things but he liked Tolkien because he was a linguistic guy. And so we connected over Lord of the Rings. So I love the books. I love the movies.

My cats are named after Tolkien characters. So we’re a nerdy house. So I’m gonna say Lord, the rings is one. And so many I’m gonna go with nonviolent communication, because it is a foundational for more on the business and personal development side. Nonviolent Communication is a phenomenal way of looking at how people work, how we communicate, why it causes us pain or happiness. So I highly recommend it to people it’s been one of those books that definitely shifted my view of people

Mostafa Hosseini  59:07

love it. Nonviolent communications Yes, duty what’s one advice that made a big impact in your business or life

Leah Fink  59:24

again, there’s so many I’m getting go with with something a coach I was lucky to work with head told me which I I’ve taken on I believe in is quite powerful is everything you believe to be true is true. Until it isn’t. And I really this has been a constant practice for me. I haven’t always done it perfectly. I’ve definitely struggled with it.

But every time I say something, like a fact like, oh, this person is this way. This is a good thing. This is a bad thing. Whatever it is, I’m trying to take that moment to go, okay. So that I’m assuming this is my truth. And that’s based on my experience and my trauma and my, everything that’s come from there. And it’s probably not a truth for another person. And it’s only true to like, decide it’s not. So if there’s a way I can, you know, advance to the next level beyond that thinking, or see it from more empathic place, whatever that is, it gives me the option to, to revamp and it always makes me think I went to New Zealand a couple of years ago with a couple friends.

And one we loved hiking and the other didn’t. And I remember being in this beautiful mountain valley and just going this is the best day of my life. That was my truth is nature is beautiful. My one friend was like I hate today. And that was to me like the the solidification of all of this is like you can decide your truth. Anytime you can decide, is this a good thing? Is this a bad thing? Am I happy? am I sad? You’ve got that power?

Mostafa Hosseini  1:00:59

Love it. Everything is everything you believe to be true. True. Until it isn’t. I think it goes back to that honesty piece as well. Like sometimes we’re not honest ourselves, and we hold some messed up belief and then and then it’s sometimes not as true as we want it to be. Well,

Leah Fink  1:01:21

and I would argue this is for positive things, too. Right? Yeah. Like all the positive things that I believe to be true or true until maybe something bad happens in my life. And I go well, that’s bull. And now I’m going to write so it’s just every every single thing that we think is fact it’s very rare to get actual facts in the world. 100%

Mostafa Hosseini  1:01:40

If you had a Google or a Facebook ad, where people around the globe with access to internet could see that ad, what will your message be for people of Earth?

Leah Fink  1:01:58

Okay, go I’m gonna go with like, you choose curiosity over control?

Mostafa Hosseini  1:02:02

Because curiosity over control?

Leah Fink  1:02:05

Yeah. Because there’s, there’s a lot we can, we want to control because the world can be scary. And we don’t know what’s happening. And I see it, especially in relationships, people try to micromanage each other, or they tell people they shouldn’t do things or can’t do things. And it becomes this very tight restrictive. And you can always choose to be curious. And say, instead of trying to, you know, control this thing, I could say, oh, well, what’s happening for you?

I would like to know more like you with your friend, you could try to control it and just, you know, break the relationship. And he doesn’t have a say in that. So you can control that. Technically, you could just go to my guests or tell them to screw off. Or you can choose curiosity to be like, hey, what’s happening for you? Okay, what are we gonna do with this?

Mostafa Hosseini  1:02:49

Love it. Love it. Love it. Leon, this has been an absolutely amazing conversation. Thank you for your knowledge and wisdom. Thanks for being here. And thanks for coaching me. Thank you for Jen, generously sharing your time and sharing the complimentary complimentary consultation with to help people with their relationships, gang, if you’re watching or listening, and if there isn’t a relationship that you want to work on and you want to improve.

Get a hold of Leah, you can find her find her across social media. And he’d go to meet leah.ca book a call and have a conversation with her. Lea, is there anything that you would you maybe wanted to mention, but we didn’t get a chance to talk about real quick before we wrap up?

Leah Fink  1:03:32

I don’t think there’s anything that would be real quick. Like you said, this conversation. I love chatting with you. So I feel this conversation could go lots of ways. But I just want to say thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure. And I certainly hope to be able to help anyone if they’re having some challenges.

Mostafa Hosseini  1:03:47

Fantastic gang. If you’re still have questions or comments, feel free to post them and we’ll do our best to answer them. Have yourself a great week. One thing that I have coming up is I’m going to be running some workshops, marketing workshops coming up. I’ll make announcements here and there, keep an eye out for them. They’re going to be nice half day workshops. And they’re going to be interesting and to the point and they’re going to be live.

So keep an eye on that. And I’ll make announcements, and hopefully we’ll hang out and talk about stuff. Thank you for joining us. You’ve been listening to daily confidence for entrepreneurs. My name is Mostafa Hosseini, and I look forward to seeing you next week. Bye now.